Have about 60-70 rounds through the Smith and Wesson MP10. Rear takedown fits tight into upper. Showing some wear marks on charging handle and on the lower receiver compared to my AR15's and I have under 100 rounds in the MP10. Looking for comments from other MP10 owners on wear from charging handle. Wear seems to be making slight grove in the left grove as you look at photo.
MP10 Charging Handle marks
- Thread starter Mr T2
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Mines doing the same thing I don't have any rounds thru it get. Mine is getting scraped just from pulling the charging handle back When I first got it the charging handle was very hard to pull I've since taken it apart for inspection and cleaned and oiled everything, and it's gotten better. Id also like to know why it's getting scratched already I haven't even shot it yet.. I'll have a few rounds thru it by the end of the week..
Had some feeding issues the first time I shot it. I cleaned and oiled the hell out of it and the 2nd time it shot well with the Pmag had problems with the factory mag. The factory 10 round mag isn't as good as the Pmag in my opinion. Factory mag follower got stuck and had problems. I'm sending my rifle back in to Smith and Wesson to look at it for the marks and charging handle. Gun broker that I bought it from has been in business a long time says it doesn't look normal to him.
I just put 80 rounds thru mine yesterday, it performed flawlessly. It didn't look like the markings increased after shooting, during my inspection while cleaning it. It is still marked just like yours. If you could please, keep this thread updated with the response from S&W.
thanks,
James
thanks,
James
Trotter
Member
I have those marks on every AR style Rifle I own. LMT, KA, LWRC, Sig, S/W
Ibmikey
Member
Metal to metal parts tend to show evidence of contact, oil it and shoot the beans out of it. Wear and use marks are a sign that you do not leave the rifle in the box and stare at it. When you have 500 rounds down the pipe take a look and see in there is unusual wear, but if it functions correctly then just shoot it!
vfin
Member
Buy "The Raptor" ambi-dexterous charging handle and your problems will be forever solved.
Worth every dollar and then some.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...87_a_7c1021_a_7c100011154_d_100011154_d_10834
vfin
Worth every dollar and then some.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...87_a_7c1021_a_7c100011154_d_100011154_d_10834
vfin
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vfin
Member
Trotter
Member
S&W M&P10 .308 - SHOT news? - Page 18 - M4Carbine.net Forums
Post # 352
Also Post 149
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/622518_Got_my_SandW_10_today_.html
Not all some are haveing a fit Issue.
Post # 352
Also Post 149
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/622518_Got_my_SandW_10_today_.html
Not all some are haveing a fit Issue.
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Little Creek
Member
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Like me. I have filed on mine and it still will not work. Oh well, another $100 paper weight.
Trotter
Member
Rainier Arm's will refund you if it will not work. Maybe not after the file came out though.
tacticool22
US Veteran
The Raptor charging handle is the mack daddy. But I have a machine shop to easily do the modifications. I let Rainier Arms know what I did to make it fit the M&P-10 correctly. It's a super simple production mod, but they would have to carry multiple part numbers.
"I let Rainier Arms know what I did to make it fit the M&P-10 correctly."
You would absolutely make my day if you would let me know what you did to make it fit correctly!
I just spoke to Rainier this morning - and while polite, they weren't particularly helpful. Except to say "go look it up on the web."
I have a theory what might fix it, but before I get the Dremel out, I want to be sure.
You would absolutely make my day if you would let me know what you did to make it fit correctly!
I just spoke to Rainier this morning - and while polite, they weren't particularly helpful. Except to say "go look it up on the web."
I have a theory what might fix it, but before I get the Dremel out, I want to be sure.
tacticool22
US Veteran
There is not a lot to do, but it takes more than a dremmel.
The little nub on the top at the end opposite the latch does not need to be there.
The groove for the carrier key needs to be .025 to .03 deeper for a .050 wall, so the hole on the end needs to be elongated or raised .025 to .03 inch.
If you don't have a milling machine and a precision vise, I really don't know how you can do the mod.
Reply appreciated.
I figured that the nub needed to go, but wasn't figuring on it being more than that.
Man, I really want to replace the stock handle (which I REALLY don't care much for) with the ultra-spiffy Raptor.
And nope - no milling machine or precision vise here...
However.... I see that you're in Orygun too. Any chance you might want to take on a small project - for a fee of course?
I figured that the nub needed to go, but wasn't figuring on it being more than that.
Man, I really want to replace the stock handle (which I REALLY don't care much for) with the ultra-spiffy Raptor.
And nope - no milling machine or precision vise here...
However.... I see that you're in Orygun too. Any chance you might want to take on a small project - for a fee of course?
tacticool22
US Veteran
Hmmm. Give me a ring and we can talk about it.
go to Tacticool22.com - Parts, Tools, Accessories, and Resources for 22 Caliber Firearms to find the number.
prairie
Member
Why can't these modifications be done with files or dremel?
This looks like one of those jobs that could be done and over with by the time I got things set up in a mill. Mills and precision vises are great, but when I worked as a gunsmith, many times it was much quicker/efficient to use a file or dremel for jobs like these. Leonard Bull, my "Limey" Bench Metal instructor, proved that many times in class, and it proved to be true in the real world gun shop also.
Please explain more clearly why a mill and precision vise is needed.
tacticool22
US Veteran
prairie. If you have the skills and patience you could make an AR bolt with a dremmel.
The first photon micro light was carved with a dremmel by a jeweler.
My "go to" is precision machinery since that is how I have made most everything since 1981. I have dremmels, power files, micro hone machines and all kinds of other goodness at my disposal, so I tend to forget there are other ways of going about modifications.
Removing the nub is a straight forward no brainer that you can do with a file.
The end hole is pretty simple too. You just need to measure your final thickness and / or make sure it has the right clearance by sending the bolt and bolt carrier home by hand.
The channel is the toughy. It's almost 6 inches long and needs .03 inch taken out. It is difficult to grind out that much material over that distance and keep it flat. You can go a little deeper, but not too deep because the handle will become weaker or to the extreme, you could cut through the channel.
The gas key is 1/4" in diameter and the channel is just over 19/64 wide.
Good luck and post some pics.
The first photon micro light was carved with a dremmel by a jeweler.
My "go to" is precision machinery since that is how I have made most everything since 1981. I have dremmels, power files, micro hone machines and all kinds of other goodness at my disposal, so I tend to forget there are other ways of going about modifications.
Removing the nub is a straight forward no brainer that you can do with a file.
The end hole is pretty simple too. You just need to measure your final thickness and / or make sure it has the right clearance by sending the bolt and bolt carrier home by hand.
The channel is the toughy. It's almost 6 inches long and needs .03 inch taken out. It is difficult to grind out that much material over that distance and keep it flat. You can go a little deeper, but not too deep because the handle will become weaker or to the extreme, you could cut through the channel.
The gas key is 1/4" in diameter and the channel is just over 19/64 wide.
Good luck and post some pics.
prairie
Member
Tacticool,
I was getting ready to update my previous post when I saw you had replied. Thanks for your clarification of what needs to be done.
I did not understand that you meant the whole length of the channel needed to be deepened. Thought you were just referring to the raised area of the channel at the front, and the nub on top. It took my son about 5 minutes of filing to remove the raised areas on top of the channel hole and nub on top. Then it was apparent that the whole channel needed clearancing.
Have reread your post several times before and after modifying our handle, and still would not have figured that out without doing our own handle. Your post made it sound like just the hole at the end needed relieving, and the nub on top removed, nothing else. Which is what several others have done with success.
A friend of mine has a mill and will see if he can cut the channel out for me next week.
What is confusing is how the fit of Raptor handles is so different for several S&W M&P10's. M&P10 Owners on this and other forums only need to just remove the nub on top at the front, or just remove the step in the hole at the front. Most need to do both. Mine is like yours that needs relieving the whole length of the channel. Even a very few have had them drop in and work right out of the package, which doesn't seem possible. Has there been a change in design or production of Raptor Ambidextrous Charging Handle, with both old and new designs still in the distribution system?
I was getting ready to update my previous post when I saw you had replied. Thanks for your clarification of what needs to be done.
I did not understand that you meant the whole length of the channel needed to be deepened. Thought you were just referring to the raised area of the channel at the front, and the nub on top. It took my son about 5 minutes of filing to remove the raised areas on top of the channel hole and nub on top. Then it was apparent that the whole channel needed clearancing.
Have reread your post several times before and after modifying our handle, and still would not have figured that out without doing our own handle. Your post made it sound like just the hole at the end needed relieving, and the nub on top removed, nothing else. Which is what several others have done with success.
A friend of mine has a mill and will see if he can cut the channel out for me next week.
What is confusing is how the fit of Raptor handles is so different for several S&W M&P10's. M&P10 Owners on this and other forums only need to just remove the nub on top at the front, or just remove the step in the hole at the front. Most need to do both. Mine is like yours that needs relieving the whole length of the channel. Even a very few have had them drop in and work right out of the package, which doesn't seem possible. Has there been a change in design or production of Raptor Ambidextrous Charging Handle, with both old and new designs still in the distribution system?
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prairie
Member
Possible, as Tacticool stated, but difficult, even for those that use files on a daily basis. A rattail file may work better than a chainsaw file.
I have over 50 files, all slightly different, that are used for specific situations. My college bench metal class instructor, mentioned previously, had well over 150 files in his tool box at school. At home he had even more files, I would guess he had 300-400 files total, all slightly different. He was a master at making any gun part from scratch, even if it was missing and he had to invent/design the part. He mostly used bench tools and methods instead of machine tools. He learned his skill in England as an apprentice in a shop who did piece work for Holland & Holland and other English arms makers.
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tacticool22
US Veteran
James. I would, but machine time is expensive and it would run almost as much to modify the charging handle as it cost to buy. They know what changes need to be made and I am hopeful they will make some M&P-10 specific ones soon.
The more people that let them know they would be willing to do an exchange, the more likely they will get on it.
The program changes are super simple. There just needs to be enough demand for them to make a bunch of stock.
Finally!
Oh happy day - it works!
The problem is that the channel in the MP10 charging handle is much deeper than the Channel in the Raptor. All other dimensions (except for that nub at the end) appear to be the same for all practical purposes.
And here's all it took for me to do it....
(Warning: to find anybody less mechanically capable than me you'd have to advertise on the Internet. So if I can do it, I can't imagine who couldn't - BUT, there definitely is the potential to mess up your expensive new non-fitting Raptor charging handle.)
1. - Dremel tool
2. - Dremel bit #100 (it has a round 1/4" diameter head)
3. - Patience
4. - Patience
5. - See number 4 & 5 - repeatedly
First - I removed the nub on top of the charging handle using a small file.
Second - I took the Dremel and "slowly" proceeded to deepen the channel in the charging handle from the front end (end near the barrel) for a length of about 4" or so with the charging handle secured in a vise.
Third - I put the charging handle and bolt back in the upper and checked to see if I was making any progress. Still binding? Back to the vise.
Fourth - I repeated the second and third steps over and over and over and over again. There's where the patience comes in.
I was more concerned about ruining the new charging handle than I was with getting the job done quickly. Likely anybody else could have done it faster, but it works and that was the goal. YMMV.
Now it's what I wanted in the first place.
Rainier should either make one of these specifically for the MP10 (like Tacticool has suggested), or state on their website that it probably won't work without modification.
Oh happy day - it works!
The problem is that the channel in the MP10 charging handle is much deeper than the Channel in the Raptor. All other dimensions (except for that nub at the end) appear to be the same for all practical purposes.
And here's all it took for me to do it....
(Warning: to find anybody less mechanically capable than me you'd have to advertise on the Internet. So if I can do it, I can't imagine who couldn't - BUT, there definitely is the potential to mess up your expensive new non-fitting Raptor charging handle.)
1. - Dremel tool
2. - Dremel bit #100 (it has a round 1/4" diameter head)
3. - Patience
4. - Patience
5. - See number 4 & 5 - repeatedly
First - I removed the nub on top of the charging handle using a small file.
Second - I took the Dremel and "slowly" proceeded to deepen the channel in the charging handle from the front end (end near the barrel) for a length of about 4" or so with the charging handle secured in a vise.
Third - I put the charging handle and bolt back in the upper and checked to see if I was making any progress. Still binding? Back to the vise.
Fourth - I repeated the second and third steps over and over and over and over again. There's where the patience comes in.
I was more concerned about ruining the new charging handle than I was with getting the job done quickly. Likely anybody else could have done it faster, but it works and that was the goal. YMMV.
Now it's what I wanted in the first place.
Rainier should either make one of these specifically for the MP10 (like Tacticool has suggested), or state on their website that it probably won't work without modification.
tacticool22
US Veteran
meef. Great job. I knew you would be able to do it.
I forget, did you mention patience anywhere in your post?
I forget, did you mention patience anywhere in your post?
hey guys emailed rainier and this was their reply
Hi,
I'm sorry but we won't be making one specifically for the M&P10. Quite possibly in the future we might redesign it so it'll compatible with that platform also, but right now it is not in the works.
David K
Rainier Arms, LLC - "Taking the AR15 to new Heights™"
2504 Auburn Way N. Auburn, WA 98002
P.253.218.2999 / F.253.218.2998
Rainier Arms™ | Specialist in High End AR15s/M16s,Stocks,Grips,Parts,Accessories & much more
On 10/20/2013 5:58 PM, James Audenried wrote:
Hey man,
Interested in a raptor ambi charging handle for my S&W M&P-10, but have heard of fitment issues for the 7.62 handle. I was wondering if you guys will be making a M&P specific charging handle.
Thanks a lot,
James Audenried
Hi,
I'm sorry but we won't be making one specifically for the M&P10. Quite possibly in the future we might redesign it so it'll compatible with that platform also, but right now it is not in the works.
David K
Rainier Arms, LLC - "Taking the AR15 to new Heights™"
2504 Auburn Way N. Auburn, WA 98002
P.253.218.2999 / F.253.218.2998
Rainier Arms™ | Specialist in High End AR15s/M16s,Stocks,Grips,Parts,Accessories & much more
On 10/20/2013 5:58 PM, James Audenried wrote:
Hey man,
Interested in a raptor ambi charging handle for my S&W M&P-10, but have heard of fitment issues for the 7.62 handle. I was wondering if you guys will be making a M&P specific charging handle.
Thanks a lot,
James Audenried
VIKING PATRIOT
Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2013
- Messages
- 7
- Reaction score
- 5
Hey guys,
I ordered a Raptor 7.62 and will be modifying it myself. I am a German Tool & Die Maker and have access to all types of machines. I am willing to do the mods for anyone for a reasonable fee. I cannot give a quote until I do the mods to mine so I can estimate the time.
I ordered a Raptor 7.62 and will be modifying it myself. I am a German Tool & Die Maker and have access to all types of machines. I am willing to do the mods for anyone for a reasonable fee. I cannot give a quote until I do the mods to mine so I can estimate the time.
prairie
Member
meef,
this is the route we will probably take. Thought I had a couple of local avenues for the machine tool route, but neither looks like it will pan out.
My son thought this would be the easiest route anyway. I'm trying to teach him to get things done with the resources at hand, instead of the ideal/perfect route that is easy. Learning to improvise and adapt is much more a useful life skill than having things handed to you.
He is in Civil Air Patrol, and that has been a huge plus for his life and ours. CAP teaches discipline, respect, and
responsibility, and has influenced the way my son looks at things, mainly for the better.
tacticool22
US Veteran
prairie. Civil Air Patrol is a fantastic organization.
I was a member for a few years and it helped cement my desire to join the Air Force.
I was a member for a few years and it helped cement my desire to join the Air Force.
