Muzzle blast reduction?

[Naphtali]

When I owned Freedom Arms Model 83s in 475 Linebaugh and Ruger SRHs in 480 I could tolerate three full-power [not "maximum"] 400-grain H110 loads per shooting session. While muzzle velocities were 1200-1300 fps, give or take, muzzle blast was too much for me to handle. When I created 4227 loads for the 400-grain bullet, two things happened. From full-power [not "maximum"] loads muzzle velocities were 1100-1150 fps, give or take, and muzzle blast was dramatically reduced. That muzzle velocities were lower made zero difference in terms of either cartridge's suitability for whitetail and elk for me. But the change in muzzle blast prompted me to query about this facet of handgun handloading.

When handloading for 2-4 inch 357 Magnum 140-160 grain bullets and Ruger large frame Blackhawk 45 Colt 250-300 grain bullets, what powders offer significantly reduced muzzle blast while retaining the ability to achieve "not maximum" muzzle velocities you normally handload to achieve?

I am not asking you to identify loads. I am not asking about powder fouling, or any other facet of a powder. I am not asking about revolvers, barrels or any suppressors. I am trying to identify which among the bazillion currently available smokeless powders offer the benefit of reduced noise.

 

[ruggyh]

With big bore revolvers (large case capacity):

in general ball powders produce more flash.

in general H110 will produce more velocity than other magnum powders with the occasional exception of Lil'gun.

as you noted you don't need the highest velocity possible when hunting, but rather best grouping- with suitable bullet selection.

be safe
Ruggy

 

[Frank237]

Are You sure it's the muzzle blast and not the recoil that's the problem?

 

[daniel lawecki]

Just saying muzzle blast and recoil go kind of go hand in hand with some people. Then they begin to flinch and shooting starts to fall off.

 

[HKSmith]

I had a similar experience with my Ruger SRH Alaskan in .454 Casull. While the recoil with full power loads was tolerable, the muzzle blast was not. I could not fire more than about 10 rounds of these loads using W296 powder (identical to H110). I think this may be an age-related phenomenon; at 73 years old the muzzle blast seems to affect my whole body. I think your loads with 4227 had less muzzle blast because they also had about 15% lower velocity; why not use that powder for .357 Magnum and .45 Colt?

I solved my problem by switching to True Blue powder, which gave slightly lower velocities and much less muzzle blast. I chose this because there's lots of load data for this powder in the Speer 14 manual for .454 and I happened to have a 4 lb canister that I wasn't using very much. I don't know that anyone has studied muzzle blast with different powders; it's very subjective.

 

[bwxmas]

I sound like a broken record but.
BE86 Was made just for this scenario..

 

[Alk8944]

To reduce muzzle blast use faster burning powders and reduce the charge weight. Naturally this will reduce velocities too! The secret is reducing muzzle pressure.

You don't say, but are you wearing hearing protection? If so this really shouldn't be an issue! If you don't then start! Tinnitis is a pain in the back-side, so is deafness!!!!!

 

[Naphtali]

At the range I use solid plugs plus muffs.

Recoil was not an issue when I shot the huge bores. I always limited the number of shots - that is, if I thought I might have a problem with the next shot, I stopped before that next shot. The unusual thing about this situation is that shooting the 4227 loads, I stopped mostly because enough is enough after 30 or so rounds.

What is BE86?

I have a huge quantity of TiteGroup that I use for plinking. While it is capable of being loaded to muzzle velocities I want to obtain, I have read anecdotal reports of such loads causing excessive wear on barrels and frames where they junction.

I have disposed of the huge bores in favor of muzzleloading rifles. My 45 Colt revolvers are for woods walking peace of mind. In my woods, there are things that believe people are a menu item.

 

[Rule3]

As mention faster, more efficient burning powders burn with less flash but also diminish velocity in big bore guns, Generally you want the slower burning magnum powders but they are flash and boom.

I would suggest a call to Hodgdon and e mail to Alliant and call Accurate and get their advice. They know what powders have more flash suppressant in them and those that can still give you magnum loads.

I read that Blue Dot will but I dislike that powder and have no idea in your calibers.

Online you will get hearsay and anecdotal information unless the person is actually shooting those big calibers and has tested the different powders

To me they all have big muzzle flash, my SW 460Mag was brutal in the Fl Sun!.

BE86 is Alliants new super duper wonder powder, Like Power Pistol but not as much flash. Good luck finding any

 

[Nevada Ed]

Noise...........!!

High vel light bullets.

Recoil.........!!
Heavy bullets at full speed.

or the mix of the two.........................

If you want LESS noise, mellow out those loads............
or get some ear muffs.

 

[ruggyh]

Please when reloading big bore revolvers use the appropriate powders.

Why do you guys think there are so many powders made today?

In other words don't use fast powders. BE86 is not a good choice for your 475 or the 454 Casuall and definitely not the 460.

Let the other guys risk their guns.

Your 4227 is a very good choice.

be safe
Ruggy

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Why do you guys think there are so many powders made today?

.
Which is exactly why we try difference powders in difference cartridges. Variety is the powder of Life.

. . . . . .

Big bore, large capacity cases, loaded with meaningful loads are going to have proportional muzzle blast. My loadings with Unique still have substantial blast, but that's because they're still +35K psi loads. It's just hard to avoid unless you severely download it.

4227 is a cylindrical single base powder that does have the least muzzle blast of all the powders I've played with. It's harder to get a thorough burn from but always seems less flashy in similar loads & would be my vote for least flashy of the commonly found & used powders.

I think a full load of 2400 is flashier than a full load H110 or Lil-Gun in magnum cartridges. Bluedot works fine with the proper load/situation but doesn't offer anything different, concerning muzzle blast in magnum cartridges. (I like it as much as Rule3 dislikes it. . I can live without it, just don't take away my Power Pistol & 2400! )

.

 

[Rogeronimo]

Personally, I like VihtaVuori 3N38 for my 3" 357. No published data for this combination, so most won't appreciate me sharing this. I have worked up loads for 140gn JHP Sierras and 180gn Hornady XTP/HP.

 

[Rule3]

.
Which is exactly why we try difference powders in difference cartridges. Variety is the powder of Life.

. . . . . .

Big bore, large capacity cases, loaded with meaningful loads are going to have proportional muzzle blast. My loadings with Unique still have substantial blast, but that's because they're still +35K psi loads. It's just hard to avoid unless you severely download it.

4227 is a cylindrical single base powder that does have the least muzzle blast of all the powders I've played with. It's harder to get a thorough burn from but always seems less flashy in similar loads & would be my vote for least flashy of the commonly found & used powders.

I think a full load of 2400 is flashier than a full load H110 or Lil-Gun in magnum cartridges. Bluedot works fine with the proper load/situation but doesn't offer anything different, concerning muzzle blast in magnum cartridges. (I like it as much as Rule3 dislikes it. . I can live without it, just don't take away my Power Pistol & 2400! )

.

Blue Dot is OK but only at max loads, even then it spits particles. I never tried it with a Mag primer. Maybe that would help. Still flaming dirt and it;s little brother Unique.

We can agree on 2400 and Power Pistol. Power Pistol was/is Bullseye 84 and used in commercial loads.

Supposedly the new Magic BE 86 is the same only with flash suppressant.

 

[Alk8944]

Supposedly the new Magic BE 86 is the same only with flash suppressant.

This is not true! If you go to the Alliant web site and compare loads you will see there is a bit of difference between them with BE-86 being a bit slower than Power Pistol.

What difference does it really make, no one can get any Alliant powders anyway!!!

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
The muzzle blast is caused by pressure.
As all guns are high pressure[just some more so than others]
compared to air guns LOL,. They make noise.
To lower the pressure , you can (A) use a light bullet and a small powder charge [aka target load] or (B) go with a heavy bullet
And drive it with a slow powder at subsonic speeds. [38spec-44spec
45acp-45 colt BP pressure loads]
As soon as you get to 1000+ fps loads the "Boom" will get worse.

 

[Rule3]

This is not true! If you go to the Alliant web site and compare loads you will see there is a bit of difference between them with BE-86 being a bit slower than Power Pistol.

What difference does it really make, no one can get any Alliant powders anyway!!!

OK, a tad different but true who can find it but I said that also.

Originally Posted by Alliant Reloading

I am glad to see you have stumbled onto some of the BE-86 we began shipping into distribution recently. Sorry to take so long to get it to market, but we have been under siege demand wise for all of our existing products in both OEM and canister markets that marketing didn't want to prioritize this new product (for canister). We will continue to get some out as we can, so if you ask for it, those orders should pull through.

I am very confident you will really like this powder. It is the same magic formulation as Bullseye(R) and Power Pistol(R), and virtually the exact geometry of Power Pistol. It is a little faster burning that Power Pistol though, and very similar to Unique(R), burn speed wise. As you mentioned, we have added flash suppressant to this product to moderate the flash response, whereas we do not for Power Pistol. BE-86(TM) is a high energy propellant though, so do not expect it to be flashless. The FS added moderates what would be maybe a basketball or bushel basket size bloom for a stout load of Power Pistol down to more like a baseball or cueball. I find it very acceptable from the shooter's position, and we have several OEM's that use this material for duty applications.

So to summarize, the "so what" on BE-86 is that it has the outstanding ballistics and ignitability of the BE series powders, in Unique burnrate, with great metering characteristics, with FS to moderate the flash bloom.

We worked up a good amount of data for this powder, but if we have left any applications out that you think might be interesting, send a message in through our "ask the expert" on our website, www.alliantpowder.com

Thank you for your interest in our new pistol powder BE-86.

Shoot well,

Paul

 

[aurora40]

The secret is reducing muzzle pressure.

Yes, I think this is the main (only?) reason for the muzzle blast. It's not an aspect of the powder except in-as-much as some powders are able to keep the pressures up longer, which is why the bullet was going 100 fps faster.

So less powder, or a faster burning powder should reduce the pressure at the muzzle, and therefore bullet velocity as well. There are lots of medium burn rate pistol powders that work in .357 and .45 Colt. I personally use 800x in moderate 357 loads. It does have less blast than 300-MP from the same gun (I've never used H110). But it also has less velocity from a 4", to the tune of about 100 fps for a 158gr bullet.

 

[Rule3]

The real secret is just do not shoot such big bore guns.

Regardless they are gonna have blast. If you can't take the blast get out of the kitchen or load mouse fart loads.

 

[rwsmith]

Someone suggested....

I was seeking really mild loads for 9mm to get my wife used to shooting it. Someone suggested a heavy bullet with Acc #7, I tried it and the difference was dramatic. So I believe type of powder and bullet as well as other factors such as length of barrel, do make a perceived difference.