My bad MP15 S&W experience

[gsochallenger]

So I buy a MP15.

First time I take it out to fire off a few rounds. On the first round it did not eject the casing. I ejected manually, checked the weapon and went to fire off another round and..................

Luckily I was wearing my BlackHawk Tatical gloves because I was holding the weapon like this

So I contact S&W. They arrange for the weapon to be returned to them to look over. They have it for 3 months and then after I email them multiply times for an update I get this.

Hello,

My supervisor received your rifle back yesterday. According to our Testing Lab, the detonation was caused by an over pressured round. Everything on the rifle checked out as meeting specifications in regards to materials and construction. As a good faith gesture, we can offer you a replacement rifle of the identical model for $830.00.

Regards,

Dave

So they basically say your problem give us more money for another one.

I respond back with this wanting my rifle shipped back to me and get this response.

Mr. Shainline,

Please see below for information on the rifle you returned for our
examination:


We have received your model M&P 15 rifle, S/N SP12559 in our Service Department. After a thorough review, we have determined that the damage to this weapon was not the result of a defect in the materials or workmanship of the handgun. The damage was due to an overpressure round.

Because we value you as a Smith & Wesson customer, we would like to extend a replacement handgun to you at a reduced cost. A replacement Model 15T rifle would be $830.00 plus $14.00 for shipping and handling.

If you would like to take advantage of this offer, the rifle would be retained by us and the new rifle would be shipped to a ffl dealer. Payment can be made via major credit card, check or money order.

If you wish to have the rifle returned to you, we cannot offer a replacement at a reduced cost.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed.

Thank you,

Kate Fredette
Customer Service
Manager

Funny my name isnt Shainline. I respond back asking who that is and get an apology for getting my name wrong. Then I email them again but like this. This is my entire email as Im trying to remain calm but Im steaming.

I would like my rifle returned to me and a copy of the report from your lab. I expect the cartridge removed from the barrel to be included with the returned weapon.

And now they wont return my emails. Ive emailed them asking for an update on when they will be shipping my weapon back. Funny all I get is its not our fault, defective ammo. No proof of that but thats it. 5 minutes ago I received an email after a week of asking for an update and asking to speak to whomever was Kates boss I get this.

"Yes we will"

Thats it

 

[Fat B]

Whoa! Good thing you were wearing gloves? That could have turned into missing finger tips.

So were you using reloaded ammo?

I don't know too much about AR's. Can you just replace the upper?

 

[MPDC]

First post? Interesting. Did the first round that didn't cycle the bolt clear the bbl.? What ammo?

 

[Dragon88]

Let's get to the important question here. What ammunition were you shooting? Factory or handloads?

 

[gsochallenger]

Whoa! Good thing you were wearing gloves? That could have turned into missing finger tips.

So were you using reloaded ammo?

I don't know too much about AR's. Can you just replace the upper?

I was not using reloads, I dont know if I can replace just the upper. I dont have the weapon back.

First post? Interesting. Did the first round that didn't cycle the bolt clear the bbl.? What ammo?

Interesting? First post? Yep, I bought the gun and the next day it did this. Should I have joined, posted about good experiences for time you felt worthy of me sharing my bad experience?

Not sure what ammo it was. I buy ammo, throw it all into a 223 bin and pull out as needed. Could be 1 of 4 or 5 brands. Thats why I was requesting the removed casing back.

Let's get to the important question here. What ammunition were you shooting? Factory or handloads?

No reloads, see above

 

[Dragon88]

That's an odd way of storing your ammo. Also, it's probably not the case in the rifle that's at question. More likely the case from the first round you fired that stuck a bullet in the bore. Your gripe is with whoever made the ammo, not S&W.

 

[MPDC]

That's an odd way of storing your ammo. Also, it's probably not the case in the rifle that's at question. More likely the case from the first round you fired that stuck a bullet in the bore. Your gripe is with whoever made the ammo, not S&W.

Yep, as I said, " Did the first round that didn't cycle the bolt clear the bbl.? What ammo? "

The only time before I've seen that type of catastrophic failure was from firing a second round behind a "squib" round.

Throw your ammo in a bin and don't know what you shot? OK, that makes it much clearer.

Sorry, when a first post is to present one side of a situation that berates a manufacturer it IS reason to question, IMHO.

 

[gsochallenger]

That's an odd way of storing your ammo. Also, it's probably not the case in the rifle that's at question. More likely the case from the first round you fired that stuck a bullet in the bore. Your gripe is with whoever made the ammo, not S&W.

bullet wasnt stuck in the bore. they claim it was a bad round. that would be the one stuck in the chamber. my gripe right now is with S&W because Im not going just except the response "overpressure round, send us 830 + shipping and we'll sell you another" without anything showing how they came to that determination. they also wont answer my request on returning the casing and the lab report to me.

 

[gsochallenger]

I really dont care if the 2 of you feel my way of storing ammo is weird. Should I keep it in separate boxes stacked neatly in the closet? Your way might be weird to others.

Like I said before, even S&W is saying that its a overpressure round, not a barrel obstruction.

 

[MPDC]

Well, one reason to NOT just "thow it all into a .223 bin" is so you know what you shoot to know what went wrong. Also easier to judge accuracy if every other round isn't different than the preceeding one.

 

[StlBluesFan72]

When I got my OR model it was jamming every 5 or 6 rounds and would not go completely into battery. Two of the jammed rounds had a light primer strike, but did not fire luckily. I am wondering if that could have been a problem here. Mine went back and came back with a brand new upper. Sorry for your problems. I have been happy with S&W service, but I do believe they are churning these things out so fast that some bad ones get through. Glad you were wearing gloves for sure. I hope it gets resolved to your liking.

 

[StlBluesFan72]

BTW is that the "new" M&P 15-T?

 

[gsochallenger]

Yes it is a M&P 15T

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Wish you the best with your problem. The photos suggest either a squib round to me or a way over pressured round. That being said, I know exactly what rounds go into any of my guns, pistol or rifle. Factory ammo stays in the box it came in and my reloads are packaged with the name of the primer, powder, and bullet. S&W is very specific in their warranty that firearm damage due to bad or incorrect ammo isn't covered, so unless you have the ammo box with the Lot Number you don't have much to back up your complaint.

What brands of ammo were used...you mentioned 4 or 5 possibilities. Also curious if the box in the photo is the box that came with the gun. My M&P15 PS came in a hard sided plastic case.

 

[oneyeopn]

Wow...even with an over-pressurized round I find that a difficult pill to swallow. There had to be an obstruction in the barrel to cause it to blow out like that or maybe the round was a 300 or something like that. I am embarrassed by the way S&W are treating you but somehow I honestly believe we are missing some important piece of information. I have seen video's of that happening but it was because the prior round was a squib and didnt clear the barrel. Unless in this case the prior round was a squib that almost cleared the barrel and the second round caused to to clear but not before blowing the rifle up. Wow, Dude I am so glad you are ok.

 

[MPDC]

It should be standard OP to check that a bbl. is clear BEFORE firing after ejecting a casing that failed to cycle properly. This is uncommon BUT has happened enough times (with other brands too) to make safety precautions obvious.

Knowing what you are shooting is, IMHO, a no brainer. We all make mistakes and this points out a big one that might save someones hand or sight IF they heed the idea of always checking after a malfunction. It is EXACTLY why the forward assist can be misused by a shooter who doesn't understand there is sometimes a REASON a rifle malfunctions that is ammo connected.

 

[oneyeopn]

I honestly believe this was caused by the first round, unless the round in the rifle is the wrong caliber, it is hard to fathom this happening. You wouldnt have some 300 blackout in your "bin" of ammo. Is your ammo mixed weights, types or styles besides manufacturers. This is just amazing and I am still glad you werent hurt. S&W have been very good about warranty and customer service so I cannot believe they would risk that reputation over your rifle. In my head I still have way more questions than answers.

 

[gsochallenger]

Well the first round was not in the barrel, I checked and it hit the target which was new, put a hole in it and it was the first round fired that day. So let me say this again. It wasnt in the barrel.


2nd S&W would have said there was a barrel obstruction that caused the over pressure. they didnt, they say it was a bad round. Twice

"After a thorough review, we have determined that the damage to this weapon was not the result of a defect in the materials or workmanship of the handgun. The damage was due to an overpressure round."

"My supervisor received your rifle back yesterday. According to our Testing Lab, the detonation was caused by an over pressured round. Everything on the rifle checked out as meeting specifications in regards to materials and construction. As a good faith gesture, we can offer you a replacement rifle of the identical model for $830.00."

But I cant get a copy of the report or any evidence to how they came to that determination. And since turning down their offer to sell me another gun, they are blowing me off.

 

[blackdeuce]

S&W have been very good about warranty and customer service so I cannot believe they would risk that reputation over your rifle. In my head I still have way more questions than answers.

What doesn't make sense is them not responding to his inquiries. Maybe they are talking with management about it?

BTW, I know the OP from another forum. This isn't a scam where a guy joins a forum just to knock S&W.

I hope they take care of you, GSO.

 

[growr]

This also has the appearance of a round fired out of battery....rare and hard to do but it can and does happen with any manufacturer AR-15 platform rifle.

Too bad you cannot be more specific on what was fired and what lot it came from....that would be very valuable information.

Randy

PS. I would ask Kate about the condition of the barrel and any other parts and see if a replacement upper receiver and bolt might be in order. Your lower seems fine...no need to replace everything.