My bad MP15 S&W experience

[oneyeopn]

Boy where is Horatio Cain when you need him?

 

[storeyteller]

My guess is the hold-up has very little to do with Kate and lots to do with lawyers.

 

[gsochallenger]

all the pics where taken the same day. the ones where you see ground and a blue barrel where taken immediately. the ones at my house where later that afternoon.

you can see the oil on it

 

[oneyeopn]

all the pics where taken the same day. the ones where you see ground and a blue barrel where taken immediately. the ones at my house where later that afternoon.

you can see the oil on it

I was wondering cause the bolt itself looked dry but it may have just been the picture. Thank you

 

[gsochallenger]

Ammo update, I went into my bin. The brands are wolf, remington, winchester

 

[Wraith413]

First off, glad to hear that you weren't injured in this catastrophic failure
In pictures 4-6, there appears to be a piece/s of a metal loop jammed in the action.
Out of curiosity, did you take the rifle apart and clean it prior to going to the range?

 

[Wraith413]

I will also say that S&W's slow responses and the "offers" doesn't reflect well on them.

 

[gsochallenger]

First off, glad to hear that you weren't injured in this catastrophic failure
In pictures 4-6, there appears to be a piece/s of a metal loop jammed in the action.
Out of curiosity, did you take the rifle apart and clean it prior to going to the range?

I broke it down and made sure it was oiled and the barrel was cleaned

 

[Plinker1962]

Wow! There isn't much more that can be asked of the OP except "Do you own other long guns?" Reason I ask is because you stated you mix your .223 ammo in a bin and take it out as needed. If you own multiple long guns, is it possible that you may have accidently thrown in ammo of another caliber? Just asking, not trying to stir the pot.

Since I'm fairly new to this forum, is it run entirely by S&W? I don't think S&W would post any comment to the OP's story being that this is a business/legal matter between the two but it sure would be nice to hear their side.

Just glad to see you're ok with no serious injuries.

 

[gsochallenger]

no chance of wrong caliber. I only use 2 bins (223 and 9mm) as I use them the most. other calibers are left in the boxes

 

[daparrothead]

Even if the round that supposedly damaged this new rifle were a double load, I would have thought the M&P AR-15 would have handled it way better than this. Regardless if the ammo was at fault or not, S&W customer service should have handled this way better than they have. Garuntee I won't buy a one of these guns.

 

[oneyeopn]

S&W from what I understand doesn't run this forum. But I could be wrong.
No disrespect to anyone but we are only hearing one side of the story, but S&W have always been know for good albeit sometimes slow, customer service.

 

[Gunslinger808]

I do notice the cam pin is blown straight up and it doesn't look like the bolt even tried to turn to come out of battery

That's a classic overpressure symptom, one of the first things affected by the gas blow back is it peels the extractor back, and locks the bolt in place.
Here's a blow by blow of what happens to an AR during a KB, it's a PDF from Armalite done in 2002:
http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech Notes/Tech Note 49, How an AR Blows Up, 02.01.pdf
It should be noted that this will happen to ANY AR that has an overpressure, not just symptomatic to S&W rifles.

 

[oneyeopn]

That's a classic overpressure symptom, one of the first things affected by the gas blow back is it peels the extractor back, and locks the bolt in place.
Here's a blow by blow of what happens to an AR during a KB, it's a PDF from Armalite done in 2002:
http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech Notes/Tech Note 49, How an AR Blows Up, 02.01.pdf
It should be noted that this will happen to ANY AR that has an overpressure, not just symptomatic to S&W rifles.

This describes exactly what we are seeing...to a tee!! I guess this is why S&W is claiming what they are!
Well from what you just told us this wouldn't be symptomatic of S&W's!!
a. It was produced my Armalite!
b. S&W wasnt making AR's in 2002!
Thank you for the info.

 

[gsochallenger]

so a gun manufacturer produced a document saying why malfunctions are ammunition problems? shocking

 

[oneyeopn]

so a gun manufacturer produced a document saying why malfunctions are ammunition problems? shocking

Sir in this case he was not just talking about a "gun manufacturer". This would be the company that designed this weapon system 50 odd years ago. The same company that had Eugene Stoner on the payroll when this was conceived. The same company that would have all the failure records for the military for most of the last half of the century. This would not be a CYA piece of paper. This would be after studying rifle failures and usage for at least 40 years. You were just given a legitimate reason for your failure. It was your responsibility to know what ammo you were putting in it. Please dont shoot the messenger.

 

[Kodiakco]

so a gun manufacturer produced a document saying why malfunctions are ammunition problems? shocking

Your just bitter....While S&W could have done better with communication, what more do you expect them to do? Give you a replacement rifle for free? While it is the fault of the ammo, you hold some responsibility too. Due to your "I store ammo in a bin" you could very well be screwed out of any further recourse. You've been a smart aleck to the people that have asked questions of you. If you had posted this on M4 or AR15 they would have bounced you right out the internet door for being so stupid to mix all your ammo. The people here are GOOD people with the best of intentions and you really have no right to treat them the way you have. You'll just have to suck it up and take whatever you can get out of all this and hopefully learn a lesson or two.

/rant

ETA: You DID get slapped around on the AR forum!

 

[Wraith413]

No, they cited the symptoms/results of a cartridge overpressure. Reading it and looking at the failure points in your pictures seems like the most plausible cause. The article also stated that in depth metallurgical analysis would have to be made of the BCG, to rule out bolt failure.
I'm not taking sides in this discussion, merely trying to figure/find out the exact cause.

 

[Dragon88]

so a gun manufacturer produced a document saying why malfunctions are ammunition problems? shocking

The gun manufacturer makes the gun to industry specifications. That can't control what ammunition you shoot. They can't help you if you dump all your ammo into a mixed "grab bag" of who knows what and have no idea what you are shooting. They can't help you if you fire a round with an obstructed bore. They can't help you if you fire an improperly loaded overpressure round. You as the gun owner are responsible for what you do to the gun after you buy it. You might have a claim with the ammunition manufacturer, but since you have no idea who made the two rounds in question due to your ammo storage method, well.......

You will help yourself a lot more if you move out of the denial phase and try to apply blame where it is justified.

Good luck to you.

 

[Silversmok3]

So OP,if you were to buy new tires for your car which blew out and caused you to wreck it, would you demand Ford buy you a new car?

The people to talk to are the ammo makers. If you don't know who it was, then id start saving up for a new rifle and some labels. As the saying goes, s--t happens.