My bad MP15 S&W experience

[Martimus]

Yeah, because I come in posting and get posts like the one above and a bunch from the beginning. Yeah laid back lol. Im trying to get my property returned and complaining about CS. People on here are hung up on ammo

Well then do that retro thing and please consider picking up a telephone and call Smith & Wesson. E-mail is, and will always be, a poor communication medium.

And the reason people are focusing in on ammo is because a cursory review of the information you provided leads many to believe that ammo was the cause of your rifles failure. If you take one thing from this experience, PLEASE consider not dumping future ammo purchases into a bin like this! If you were to have a another ammo failure, or an ammo manufacturer has a product recall, you have no easy way of accurately separating that ammo out of your bin. And even if you do, you can't match lot numbers so all you could realistically do is remove all of the ammo with that manufacturers headstamp. Since you don't know the manufacturer of the ammo in use at the time of this failure, you are pretty much limited to dumping the entire bin and starting over.

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

For what its worth, cause of the rupture aside, you should give S&W a call. Speak to someone higher up in customer service and discuss your customer service concerns with them. No more email, it's gotten you nowhere other than wholly frustrated and disappointed, and in S&W's defense they may very well have been suspicious of why you didn't/haven't called. Having your firearm rupture like that is no small issue.

For better or worse though, moving forward I think if you gave them a call and voiced your point of view regarding how they made you feel as a customer through this whole ordeal and how you would have liked to have been treated in this situation, you may end up coming away with some kind of understanding or peace of mind. At the very least they would be able to explain their actions and reasoning to you, and person to person over the phone. Not through a confused series of emails. For S&W, it may help them to better how they handle situations such as yours.

And in the future,
Know what ammunition you are shooting
Don't mix ammunition or store it the way you have been
Keep records of the necessary ammunition info
Always remember you are very fortunate you weren't seriously injured or killed

 

[Plinker1962]

If I may make a suggestion or two...recontact S&W and have them return your gun. Ask them if they still have the spent cartridge and have that returned too. Start over as if it's the beginning and find the manufacturer of the ammo you used. I think you would be hard pressed to get that manufacturer to admit blame (overpressured round) if you don't have the box, w/lot #, as proof. They could also question the spent round as not being the one in the gun when you shipped it to S&W.

If I were in your shoes, I would have dealt with S&W for a replacement rifle at a price lower than the $850 they offered you. If they were firm on their offer, and you still are not satisfied, I would have the lower checked out and if it's in good shape, I would install a new upper. Since S&W AR's have interchangeable parts with all other AR's, you could replace the upper with a different brand. It's that or buy yourself another AR type rifle and do not mix and match your ammo. Store them in their original boxes until you're done shooting them.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[smithman 10]

K-boom

Since I have a Sport and have shot several hundred rounds through it, I took the time to read these posts AND most of the posts on the other forum.

What I find hard to understand is what several posters on the other forum referred to - brass marks on the deflector of a rifle that supposedly has only fired 2 rounds.

My new Sport had no brass markings on the deflector before I fired it.

Other than that, it certainly sounds like a squib.

Bottom line, I don't know what the OP will end up doing, but I will be more careful when firing either one of my ARs.

And if I have any doubts, I'll take the rifle down and look through the barrel and see daylight before chambering another round!

 

[Maddmax]

Ok. How about a new twist. Your first round caused a problem and you had to remove it. Just by chance,did you stand the rifle barrel on its end or up against something and get dirt or anything stuck (unknowingly) in the muzzle ? Was the first case fully intact when exracted ? Could have had unknowingly had slivers/pieces of brass in the barrel ? What type of bullet jacket and weight ? Right case and neck length ? How was the bullet seated and total bullet length ? Wrong sized bullet in the breach too short or two long would cause problems. Would the rifle except 5.56 or 223 both or only one cal ?

 

[Bullseye Smith]

I didn't take time to read everything, but in the pictures it looks like the bolt is still in the barrel and the barrel is in tack. I say the first round was still in the barrel and the second round was trying to pull the barrel out of the reciever. Glad the OP is ok, And I would tear it apart and see what you can save. You may be able to fix it for two to three hundred.

 

[Gomizzou1954]

I read all the post on the other site and all I can say is I have no sympathy for you and don't believe you. You stated several times that you aren't asking for anything but for them to send your rifle, cartridge, and the lab test back. Then why did you state you email them, so you have proof of what is said.

According to your post yesterday of 7/12, after 3 months and multiple emails they reply it just came accross her supevisors desk. (Did it take that long and they could not give you an answer until then).They offer you a reduced price for a replacement, and you turn them down. Then they don't reply anymore. You contact them you want your property back and they reply 5 minutes ago, OK, will send it back. Did you expect them to email it to you. So you knew before you posted here and other site numerous times you just want your rifle back, that they had stated it will be returned.

1 It's what you can prove. You are going after S&W because you know that was the firearm but you don't know what the ammo was. You expect S&W to take your word that it is a factory load and not a handload.

2 S&W could have settled this matter with a replacement which is small change to them. Why would a multi million dollar co. risk the bad press and losing contracts with law enforcement agencies if they thought there was any way they would lose a court case? I am sure they are 100% sure what caused this to happen, other wise they would have sent you a new rifle at n/c.

Years ago S&W sent a rep to a local gun store to inspect your guns for free. They found a problem with my 10 year old M29 and sent it back to the factory, replaced the yoke, and returned it to me no charge. This is the kind of service that goes above and beyond. I will by from S&W in the future and trust them completely.

 

[KEN L]

The bottom line here is there was no barrel obstruction. The pictures depict a classic catastrophic failure due to over pressure. If you have any doubt, just GOOGLE AR15 Kaboom. There have been a lot of them in the past few years. The ammunition manufacturer is at fault and getting that blown case returned is imperative in resolving your issue. If it was the Wolf ammunition you may be SOL. If however it was a domestic manufacturer you may be in luck. I'm curious, was the magazine damaged as well?

I was with a friend of mine at the Silencer Shoot here in GA two years ago. An onlooker wanted to shoot his M16 with POF upper. He had his own ammo, don't recall the name but was a popular brand (bought at Dick's Sporting Goods) that was basically reloads made up from once fired brass and new components. Well, you guessed it, KABOOM! It was quite noticeable since everyone was shooting suppressed. Long story short, ammunition manufacturer paid for new upper (fortunately registered lower was undamaged) and audiologist visits. My friend was standing just to the right of the weapon while it was being fired and since everything was suppressed, no one, including him, was wearing hearing protection.

I understand your frustration with S&W CS and some of the responses here and agree with Plinker1962 about direct contact. E-mails are fine if you're not in a hurry for a response. But to me, they are like texting. I've never been able to understand texting when it's so much easier to make a phone call and have an actual conversation with someone. Anyway, make the call and get to the top of the food chain. I'm sure they will work with you to resolve this issue.

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

Glad the OP wasn't hurt. From what I have been reading I agree with those who believe the first round was a squib follwed by the second round which caused the Ka-Boom.

If I were S&W rep. in charge I would sell him another rifle at S&W's cost too generate good public relations. But if they don't they don't. In the OP's defense, I think the letters the OP recieved (in the wrong name) and stating the handgun instead of the rifle was not a good thing for S&W, and irratated the situation more.

 

[jsimmons]

Unless you can produce the casing and lot number for the round that blew up, S&W can claim an over-pressure round was used, and judging from the pictures, that's exactly what it looks like. It admittedly sucks, but I think you'd get that response from any firearm manufacturer. FWIW, getting the gun back from S&W, salvaging what parts you can, and buying from another manufacturer (or even building your own with the salvaged parts) is an equally reasonable reaction on your part. I know that *I* wouldn't be willing to give S&W any more of my money if one of their guns blew up in my face.

 

[Maddmax]

If I were S&W rep. in charge I would sell him another rifle at S&W's cost too generate good public relations. But if they don't they don't.

Depending on the lab reports and "OP's ammo storage" attitude/problem and all the other unknowns that's a hard one to call. "Sounds" like the OP screwed up and wants a new gun for free.50/50 chance it could happen again. We're not getting all the facts.

 

[oneyeopn]

I would still like to see the magazine, I would also like to know what the ratio of bullet manufacturers in said magazine. Because a normal person wouldnt reach into their "bin" of bullets to stir it, the bullets may have layered in the bin and a person may be able to deduce what brand of ammo was in the rifle. As I see it, it is a typical over-pressure, if S&W were to repair the gentleman's rifle for free, they would be setting a precedent that could end up causing them to fix any operator or ammunition induced situation. I know a while back Colt did it, and it was kind of an advertising coup for them. They need an advertising coup, their market share of rifle sales is falling because of the fact that other manufacturers are offering rifles that are just as good, if not better, but less expensive. S&W does not have that problem. How many times since Handejector and the rest of the staff gave us this forum, have you seen someone post, "where can I find one?" There doesnt seem to be an over abundance of M&P15's out there available, its getting better, but still. I believe we dont have the whole story but from what we have I can see where mistakes were made by both parties. If they had sent me the letter with someone elses name, I would have been screaming at them over the phone, not sending back an email. The OP doesnt want us to diagnose this problem. He knows what the problem is and I am pretty sure he knows what caused it. He wants a positive response to S&W's poor customer service on this issue and I will give him that. But on the other hand unless he is mute, he should have been making personal phone calls and registered letters. Not waiting 3 months and sending emails.

 

[Kodiakco]

On TOS, this is my favorite comment so far.

You've paid your "Stupid Tax".
Move forward.

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

Admittedly I don't know the science involved in "Kabooms" but is it a possibility that his M&P15 may have saved his life or at the very least his hand?
Seems to me if the firearm was of a lesser quality, more of the gun might have been affected by the over pressure and come apart. Yeah it was good he was wearing gloves, but I doubt that is what saved his hand considering where it was. That's really only going to protect you from small shrapnel or flash burn.
It could very well be testament to how quality materials and manufacturing did their part to protect the end user from injury in a situation like this.

 

[MPDC]

Admittedly I don't know the science involved in "Kabooms" but is it a possibility that his M&P15 may have saved his life or at the very least his hand?
Seems to me if the firearm was of a lesser quality, more of the gun might have been affected by the over pressure and come apart. Yeah it was good he was wearing gloves, but I doubt that is what saved his hand considering where it was. That's really only going to protect you from small shrapnel or flash burn.
It could very well be testament to how quality materials and manufacturing did their part to protect the end user from injury in a situation like this.

I think this post earned you the right to change your screen name to, "Silver Lining"!

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

I think this post earned you the right to change your screen name to, "Silver Lining"!

Thing is, I'm usually pessimistic, lol

 

[MichiganScott]

What I find hard to understand is what several posters on the other forum referred to - brass marks on the deflector of a rifle that supposedly has only fired 2 rounds.

I was too focused on the damage to notice the brass marks on the deflector.

Realizing the amount of contact of the fired case with the deflector will depend on a number of issues ,i.e. lube, condition of springs, ammo used, etc., there is no way that rifle only had the proofing rounds and one other cartridge fired before it blew.

I would suggest the OP was doing mag dumps. Possibly a piece of neck from the cartridge before the kaboom got stuck in the neck or barrel immediately in front of the neck and raised the pressure up enough to cause the issue. The bullet would not be stuck in the barrel like it would of been from a squib.

Someone tried to get S&W to pay for their mistakes and it didn't work. Now they're pissed. The facts don't back up the story.

 

[ScottyJ]

Oh no. Not this thread again.

 

[blackdeuce]

I shot my Daniel Defense for the first time this weekend. After the first 20 rounds (1 box of ammo), my gun had a lot of brass on the deflector. I didn't notice, but my son and/or brother did (I can't remember which one of them saw it). I didn't check to see what it looked like after 2 rounds, but I would guess that it had marks.

I'm not taking sides, but I'm curious. Why is everyone so certain that the gun was not defective? Because S&W said so? Could there have been an issue with the material composition, or something else that didn't function properly?

Anyway, I'm not looking for an argument, I'm just curious.

 

[oneyeopn]

Blackdeuce...no one here is looking for an argument, I can promise you that. It is just that the pictures we saw are from a common over-pressurization problem. It is not common but as far as serious KB's with an AR it is. The traditional signs were all there. The information that we were given actually left more questions than answers. The ones on the forum with the most experience with the AR style rifle have seen the problem before. Even Armalite published a paper about it 10 years ago. When he ignored the magazines questions that was another telling sign. The main issue is truthfully the bore had to be plugged to cause that problem, there is no other way to get the gas to come back around the bullet case and over pressure the Bolt Carrier. There are failures reported in that area, rarely but they happen but they dont leave the rifle in that shape. Honestly you can search the web and find pictures just like that and they are always caused by a plugged bore. No disrespect to the gentleman but his defensiveness and attitude did nothing but confirm that he was not telling the whole story. I wish him the best and expect that he can rebuild his rifle. But I will bet he learned what not to do.