My brand new 686 plus. Only the new Marlins offer the same level of disappointment.

So I assume that if I was dissatisfied that the gun had some cosmetic imperfections that, as an owner, you know, the one who paid the money, was disappointed with, that I would be asked, "How does it shoot," by some folks on here; evidently.
 
WATCHDOG said:
I can't imagine buying a gun or taking delivery of a gun...new or used...without thoroughly inspecting it.
Click to expand...

I made a bad judgement call. I couldn't find them locally after searching for several months, didn't check the crown, figured S&W would take care of the other issues (they did), so I proceeded..

That is all beside the point. S&W's quality control has gone to **** and I wanted to bring that to light.
 
Honestly....

......I've seen worse. I feel about crowns the same way I do about barrels. There should be no reason why a top flight gun manufacturer should not be able to screw a barrel on straight or machine a decent crown. The crown on my 686 doesn't look that great, but I can't complain about how it shoots one bit. So I don't worry about it.

I believe that "It is in spec" is a good reason not to fix something, but I also believe sometimes that the 'specs' are way too loose.
 
WATCHDOG said:
I can't imagine buying a gun or taking delivery of a gun...new or used...without thoroughly inspecting it.
Click to expand...

Ok, you got me!

This is the first year I've bought a new gun in 13 years -- back then it was a flawless PC 500, which even after all the rounds through it, still looks like it did back then. This year I've picked up a 360PD, 60LS, M&P340, and finally the 640 Pro I mentioned earlier.

Of all the NIB Smiths I've bought (going back 40 years), not one had cosmetic, mechanical, or any other issues... until the 640 Pro. I was lulled into believing every NIB Smith was flawless and didn't really need to be viewed through a magnifying glass before being carried out the shop's door.

It was daylight in the shop when I picked up the 640 Pro so I didn't notice the dead Tritium front sight (till that night at home). And I would NEVER dry fire a gun in the shop so, again, the lousy, gravelly trigger didn't show itself till I got home and tried it with snap caps. The factory solved those two faults but refused to address the cosmetic issues.

Inasmuch as I've come to accept the ugly milling on my 640 Pro, I sincerely appreciate -db-'s take, and as I promised the factory CS guy, I've bought my last new Smith. It wasn't an idle threat, but he didn't really care. I should not have to "inspect" a new gun the same way I do an old one. I've bought six used guns this year, and none have had the issues I encountered with my NIB 640 Pro. I'll continue to buy used Smiths, after a thorough inspection, or course.

Cheers,

Bob
 
two-bit cowboy said:
Ok, you got me!

This is the first year I've bought a new gun in 13 years -- back then it was a flawless PC 500, which even after all the rounds through it, still looks like it did back then. This year I've picked up a 360PD, 60LS, M&P340, and finally the 640 Pro I mentioned earlier.

Of all the NIB Smiths I've bought (going back 40 years), not one had cosmetic, mechanical, or any other issues... until the 640 Pro. I was lulled into believing every NIB Smith was flawless and didn't really need to be viewed through a magnifying glass before being carried out the shop's door.

It was daylight in the shop when I picked up the 640 Pro so I didn't notice the dead Tritium front sight (till that night at home). And I would NEVER dry fire a gun in the shop so, again, the lousy, gravelly trigger didn't show itself till I got home and tried it with snap caps. The factory solved those two faults but refused to address the cosmetic issues.

Inasmuch as I've come to accept the ugly milling on my 640 Pro, I sincerely appreciate -db-'s take, and as I promised the factory CS guy, I've bought my last new Smith. It wasn't an idle threat, but he didn't really care. I should not have to "inspect" a new gun the same way I do an old one. I've bought six used guns this year, and none have had the issues I encountered with my NIB 640 Pro. I'll continue to buy used Smiths, after a thorough inspection, or course.

Cheers,

Bob
Click to expand...

Your trigger sounds just like mine was. I measured mine at close to 6 lbs.

Right now I'm weighing my options. Part of me wants to sell all of my S&W's and buy a Korth.
 
Comparing that gun to a new car with scratched paint is silly. It is more like a new car with scratches inside the exhaust pipe.
 
amazingflapjack said:
So I assume that if I was dissatisfied that the gun had some cosmetic imperfections that, as an owner, you know, the one who paid the money, was disappointed with, that I would be asked, "How does it shoot," by some folks on here; evidently.
Click to expand...
No one said that there is something wrong with being dissatisfied with a product.

If you are dissatisfied at the dealer DON'T become the new owner of the product you are dissatisfied with.

To take possession of something you are already dissatisfied with just makes no sense to me.

if you re-read the OPs first few posts, he saw the cosmetic issues BEFORE taking possession and brought the revolver home anyway. THEN he complained about the cosmetic flaws and the fact that the manufacturer was not willing to make it as pretty as he thought it should be.
 
eveled said:
Comparing that gun to a new car with scratched paint is silly. It is more like a new car with scratches inside the exhaust pipe.
Click to expand...

Except my gun's crown is uneven, not scratched on the exterior. I touched up some rock chips on my new car last weekend, and they are now invisible. Fixing the crown on this gun is more involved. However if you'd like to see how silly it is I invite you fire one of your perfectly crowned guns, take a dremel to the crown, and see if there's any difference. :D
 
S&W, along with all other modern manufacturers, only get away with increasingly lower standards because the buying public allows it. It's a problem that will only get worse until enough people get fed up and use their purchasing power to put an end to the downward slide. I'll be damned if I ever purchase a brand new gun and accept the flaws we see many here share with us and I don't care how many think they're clever and ask, "Yeah, but how does it shoot?", trying to tell me I should be happy with sub-par work.
Click to expand...

In a perfect world this might be true but in this reality? With all of the complaining you see on this and other Forums and the number of guns sent back for rework, just how much change in Smith & Wesson's quality stance and business model have you observed??

I thought so!!

:(:(:(

Bruce
 
colt_saa said:
No one said that there is something wrong with being dissatisfied with a product.

If you are dissatisfied at the dealer DON'T become the new owner of the product you are dissatisfied with.

To take possession of something you are already dissatisfied with just makes no sense to me.

if you re-read the OPs first few posts, he saw the cosmetic issues BEFORE taking possession and brought the revolver home anyway. THEN he complained about the cosmetic flaws and the fact that the manufacturer was not willing to make it as pretty as he thought it should be.
Click to expand...

If YOU re-read my post you'll see that they took care of my cosmetic issues, but not the crown that I had originally failed to notice. Are you going to argue that a barrel's crown is merely cosmetic? Are you willing to send a ransoms rest my way with a 4" 686 that has a perfect crown, and several types of ammo for an accuracy test? I can't prove that my crown isn't cosmetic without a test like that, but at the same time you sure as hell can't argue it is cosmetic. Logic is not on your side with this.

I seriously don't understand the fan boy leg humping. My post was to add one more account of this company going to ****. If I sell this gun I'll loose maybe $50. That's not a big deal to me. S&W's disregard for quality is concerning to me, and as avid fans of the company it should be more concerning to you too.
 
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Invisible Hand said:
If YOU re-read my post you'll see that they took care of my cosmetic issues, but not the crown. Are you going to argue that a barrel's crown is merely cosmetic?

I seriously don't understand the fan boy leg humping. My post was to add one more account of this company going to ****. If I sell this gun I'll loose maybe $50. That's not a big deal to me. S&W's disregard for quality is concerning to me.
Click to expand...
Yes, the image you provided is of a cosmetically imperfect crown, not a dysfunctional one.

That is why we are asking how it shoots, as evidence of a lack of functionality
 
I never bought a new S&W, although I own several of their revolvers. I would not buy a new one at this point. I would not like to send a gun back. I did it once in 1990, with a new Taurus revolver. After a very long while, they sent me a new one and I immediately sold it without shooting it.
 
These threads are very tiresome to read.

Maybe you should go buy a Korth?

I understand that you're upset and indeed S&W needs to tighten up on quality control.

When I buy a gun, I will spend as long as it takes to examine it. The slightest blemish and I will reject it.

The above method saves me a lot of time in the future by not having to write a miserable topic.
 
What's it cost to have a barrel re-crowned? A couple of boxes of bullets?


Yeah, I know S&W _should_ do it, but they aren't and that's bad on them. But if it bothers that much, take it to a competent smith you trust to do quality work and have him _fix it_.
 
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Well, I was curious about some of my guns, so I went to look. I had to get the magnifier to get a good look at the bevel on the crown of my "shooting gun" a 627-2 from the late 90s. It was then I realized that the pictures shown were magnified several times, and when magnified, the crowns on the 627-2 and two others I looked at were not as well done as the OP's gun. The crowns looked fine with the naked eye, but not near so good under 5x magnification. I wonder what the OP's looks like with the naked eye?
 
Nightowl said:
Well, I was curious about some of my guns, so I went to look. I had to get the magnifier to get a good look at the bevel on the crown of my "shooting gun" a 627-2 from the late 90s. It was then I realized that the pictures shown were magnified several times, and when magnified, the crowns on the 627-2 and two others I looked at were not as well done as the OP's gun. The crowns looked fine with the naked eye, but not near so good under 5x magnification. I wonder what the OP's looks like with the naked eye?
Click to expand...

Like this.... Still easy to see it is about 1/16" uneven from left to right. NOT because of the rifling cuts.

photo%204_zpskffaq7hy.jpg
 
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To the OP, I'm sorry you are having issues with your revolver. You are correct in your assertion that your problem highlights a bigger concern than the crown of an individual handgun.

I too have personally experienced the slipping quality coming out of Springfield. My last new S&W revolver required four trips back and two replacement barrels to make it right. To S&W's credit, they kept sending me shipping labels until the gun was fixed. However, it left me unimpressed enough with the brand's current level of quality to suspend any further purchases until things improve...

Good luck with your 686. As others have mentioned, a competent local gunsmith will be able to recrown your revolver's barrel.

Unfortunately, S&W didn't take the ten minutes required to fix the issue while they had your handgun. This would have resulted in a happy customer recounting the story of how S&W takes care of problems. Instead, they have a disgruntled customer and we have this post.

Edmo
 
I retired as a Quality Control Mgr. after 26 yrs. You bought a blemished handgun, sent it back to be upgraded to an excellent handgun. S&W done what you asked, BUT, missed something. In the mean time S&W is doing other work for ? thousand's of customers? You get back in the loop again, a VP talks to you and gives you an answer, Hundreds maybe thousands more get in the loop. You try to back door the system and get an employee written up because YOU ARE NOT satisfied. Brother some times you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you. Live with it.
 
I say again the crown countersink was bored off axis to the bore.
We have seen examples in here where that has happened to the barrel throat (forcing cone) which is a more serious error.
Unfortunately, only you can now decide what you want to do about it given S&W's current move to more relaxed standards.
Any decent gunsmith that is a master machinist will be able to touch that up and make it look right in a jiffy.
I guess S&W doesn't have any of those left.
And if it will make you feel better, send the bill to them.
Don't hold your breath though.
Theoretically that defect might throw the POI off from what it would have been.
Predicting accuracy though is a hazy business at best.

This thread has been an interesting probe into the psychology of revolver owners .. so thank you!

These are the only 2 full width S&W barrels I have out at the moment.
One is button rifling the other is ECM (and is full of lead from firing #8 shot).
 

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Sounded familiar!

I thought this op's post sounded familiar. I checked his previous post about a 629 he was also dissatisfied with. I'm reminded of a friend of mine who was never happy with ANY firearm he bought. It didn't matter is it was new or used, if he couldn't find a problem with it AFTER he bought it, he'd try to create one. He became a nightmare to all lgs in our area. It all just sounded familiar!
 
-db- said:
S&W, along with all other modern manufacturers, only get away with increasingly lower standards because the buying public allows it. It's a problem that will only get worse until enough people get fed up and use their purchasing power to put an end to the downward slide. I'll be damned if I ever purchase a brand new gun and accept the flaws we see many here share with us and I don't care how many think they're clever and ask, "Yeah, but how does it shoot?", trying to tell me I should be happy with sub-par work.
Click to expand...

I think I brought up this same logic before and don't believe it was well received here. It is 100% true though. Since then I have quite trying, because too many people obviously enjoy buying these 'quality' newer guns and just don't want to hear it. So now my opinion is everyone can enjoy whatever guns they want if it makes them happy. I am perfectly fine with it. The important thing is, I know what makes me happy, and what makes me happy is buying metal artwork of days long gone. Also, one of the reasons I come on here is to read all the current issues that get posted up as it amuses me. So what would I do if it stopped.

To the OP, good luck with your gun. A professional smith should be able to fix it, but that's not the point. You should not have to pay money out of pocket to fix a factory defect. All of you saying just deal, wait until your next fine firearm comes looking like that and I bet your opinion changes quick.
 
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classic bob said:
I thought this op's post sounded familiar. I checked his previous post about a 629 he was also dissatisfied with. I'm reminded of a friend of mine who was never happy with ANY firearm he bought. It didn't matter is it was new or used, if he couldn't find a problem with it AFTER he bought it, he'd try to create one. He became a nightmare to all lgs in our area. It all just sounded familiar!
Click to expand...

I have 29 firearms. 27 of which I bought new. 3 have been sent back, my 686, and my 629, and my Kel-Tec Sub 2000. :rolleyes:
 
iPac said:
I think I brought up this same logic before and don't believe it was well received here. It is 100% true though. Since then I have quite trying, because too many people obviously enjoy buying these 'quality' newer guns and just don't want to hear it. So now my opinion is everyone can enjoy whatever guns they want if it makes them happy. I am perfectly fine with it. The important thing is, I know what makes me happy, and what makes me happy is buying metal artwork of days long gone. Also, one of the reasons I come on here is to read all the current issues that get posted up as it amuses me. So what would I do if it stopped.

To the OP, good luck with your gun. A professional smith should be able to fix it, but that's not the point. You should not have to pay money out of pocket to fix a factory defect. All of you saying just deal, wait until your next fine firearm comes looking like that and I bet your opinion changes quick.
Click to expand...

Thanks buddy! If I keep the gun I will send it off for a re-crown, bead blast finish, and action job.
 
This thread is hilarious.
The op has three options.

1. Find someone who can shoot it accurately and see if there is an actual problem.
or,
2. Send the gun to a private gunsmith and have the crown cut to his/her acceptable standards.
or,
3. Sell the gun and do an better inspection before laying down the cash/credit card on the next one.

I forgot a fourth,

4. Throw all your magnifying glasses, high intensity lamps, and microscopes in the trash and go shooting. Been there, done that on one return. Ten minutes after it was returned from the factory I forgot what the issue was in the first place.
 
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My experience with crowns is that even a small nick or irregularity wreaks havoc on accuracy. An asymmetrical or damaged crown means that at the last moment the bullet exits the barrel the gases give an uneven push and destabilize the bullet. The smallest nick in the crown can destroy accuracy.

If I had a crown as shown in the photos here, I would have it corrected immediately. I would not waste ammo even trying it out.

So yes, you can count this as a vote for the OP and his worries.
 
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