My brand new 686 plus. Only the new Marlins offer the same level of disappointment.

[OlongJohnson]

A 640 Pro recently went back to the online seller from an FFL near here due to a crown that looked similar to the OP's and due to a yoke that severely interfered with the frame and wouldn't close without being deflected 10-15 thousandths. Fortunately, the online seller is a good one and made it no hassle. And the buyer was smart enough to call them and arrange the return prior to putting a drop of ink on the 4473.

 

[Invisible Hand]

A 640 Pro recently went back to the online seller from an FFL near here due to a crown that looked similar to the OP's and due to a yoke that severely interfered with the frame and wouldn't close without being deflected 10-15 thousandths. Fortunately, the online seller is a good one and made it no hassle. And the buyer was smart enough to call them and arrange the return prior to putting a drop of ink on the 4473.

That is ridiculous. I'm glad the Army just kicked them out of the bid for their next sidearm. There is no excuse for these guns getting past their QC to began with. And yes, I made a mistake by accepting the transfer.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I can't believe this is STILL being discussed. Have we accomplished anything?

 

[Invisible Hand]

I'm good with letting this thread die. It has more than served its purpose. Thank you to those who contributed.

 

[stykshooter]

I was curious so I went through some of the guns in my safe. I have purchased four new Smith & Wessons since the first of the year. I just examined the crown on each of them. I confess, even though I was a S & W armorer for over 20 years, I never thought to examine the crown on my barrels until I read this thread.

All of the crowns look perfect, except the one on my new 686 plus 3". Although the photo may not show it all that well, the crown on that barrel is at least as bad as the one that the OP posted photos of. The left side of the barrel in the photo has hardly any crown to it while the right side is visibly deeper. That is tough to photograph by the way.

I was originally disappointed in the accuracy of this revolver as it wouldn't shoot any of my 158 grain or 180 grains loads into a group you could cover with a hat at 25 yards. Then I tried some 125 grain loads. This revolver exhibits stellar accuracy with 125 grain .357 loads. The target on the left in the photo is six rounds of Remington 125 grain Golden Saber factory loads from a rest at 25 yards. Yeah, I went out and stocked up on that Load!!

It would be interesting to see how it affected accuracy if I would have the crown trued up. But I doubt that I will bother as I really like how this revolver shoots at present. It may not shoot as well afterward.

 

[6string]

The OP has a valid point of view.
It's third-rate work on their part.
The really aggravating part is S&W could have just fixed this in minutes. It's a no-brainer repair to cut a squared muzzle, regardless of profile. That it's on a stainless gun and thus requires no finish work just underscores the point.
You're a paying customer with a legitimate gripe. They could have fixed it right away, probably in less time than squabbling about it at the factory. Instead, they dug in their heels and said "tough luck". They chose to win an argument rather than serve a customer.

Either fix it or sell it, in my opinion. You'll always have a bad taste in your mouth over this if you just leave it.
If you sell it, I wonder how many of the repliers who said it doesn't matter would be willing to knowingly buy it?

Oh yeah, one more thing: Bud's does this sort of thing all the time, especially on their used stuff!

Someone recommended sticking with regular stocking dealers. Good point! Sadly, it's becoming a tougher option all the time!

Best Wishes for a satisfactory resolution,
Jim

 

[sasu]

I have my eyes on the 629 Performance Center Hunter but having experienced my own and reading about others' problems with S&W quality inconsistencies I may switch this purchase to a Ruger instead as I do not want another dud. I will wait until I start hearing that S&W has fixed their quality check process. I have no way of personally checking a gun before purchase as I special order overseas and I have no way to return a gun for warranty repairs because guns are "too dangerous" to ship overseas by an individual.

EDIT: I made my choice and ordered a new Ruger Super Redhawk 44 Magnum. Ugly as h*ll but more probably mechanically sound.

 

[OLDSTER]

crown issue

My experience with crowns is that even a small nick or irregularity wreaks havoc on accuracy. An asymmetrical or damaged crown means that at the last moment the bullet exits the barrel the gases give an uneven push and destabilize the bullet. The smallest nick in the crown can destroy accuracy.

If I had a crown as shown in the photos here, I would have it corrected immediately. I would not waste ammo even trying it out.

So yes, you can count this as a vote for the OP and his worries.

Yes It's the asymmetry that negatively affects accuracy. A few years ago I purchased a beat up old K38 with severe pitting at the muzzle. I machined the muzzle back even with the front of the sight to clean it up. I made sure it was machined perfectly smooth and perpendicular to the bore to avoid uneven combustion. The results are a muzzle with no "crown" at all, that will print with a target barrel at 10 yards. So, yes any concerns regarding poorly executed counter boring at the muzzle are well founded:

 

[Texas629]

I was about to buy a new 686 at Bass Pro Shop last weekend until I read this thread and checked the pistol out, specifically the crown. I brought my head lamp, magnifier and some other tool with me and checked it out at the counter. Same issue with the crown as the OP posted. The store had another 686 sent to the store, it was worse than the first one and the crane wasn't square with the frame. The store manager said I could buy it and send it back to S&W to fix. Hmm, bought a used Ruger Redhawk .41 mag from a LGS that had no visible issues and shoots great and saved myself about $250 and a lot of aggravation I don't want. The 686 would have been the first S&W I have bought. I am cured of my new pistol blues.

 

[magnumkdb44]

yep thats the new smith & wesson for ya. quality gone out the window

 

[TAC]

I can't think of any gun manufacture that hasn't quality control issues of some kind. It's baffling that a barrel crown would be one of them. It's probably one of the easiest things to get right. Manufacturing in general isn't what it used to be. It's becoming a lost art in the U.S. The other problem contributing to quality is increased demand.

It would be interesting to see some statistics showing how bad the problem actually is. How many slip by, vs how many are just fine. Are we just hearing about that bad ones, and not so much about the good ones?

I recently purchased two new 686 Plus's, and one 640, and all three are about as perfect as possible! Same with a 442 I purchased a few years ago, again, no issues of any kind.

 

[silverstateS&W]

if you got it from Bud's it probably IS brand new.
But I'm sure that the reason you 'ordered' it online was to save a few $$.
I see you live in the Dallas area there must be several quality indepedent gun stores within 50 miles. They are the backbone of the gun industry and serve a definite purpose-that of having inventory on had you can look at and but at a fair price.
"Don't confuse price with cost"

 

[Invisible Hand]

I have my eyes on the 629 Performance Center Hunter but having experienced my own and reading about others' problems with S&W quality inconsistencies I may switch this purchase to a Ruger instead as I do not want another dud. I will wait until I start hearing that S&W has fixed their quality check process. I have no way of personally checking a gun before purchase as I special order overseas and I have no way to return a gun for warranty repairs because guns are "too dangerous" to ship overseas by an individual.

EDIT: I made my choice and ordered a new Ruger Super Redhawk 44 Magnum. Ugly as h*ll but more probably mechanically sound.

I was about to buy a new 686 at Bass Pro Shop last weekend until I read this thread and checked the pistol out, specifically the crown. I brought my head lamp, magnifier and some other tool with me and checked it out at the counter. Same issue with the crown as the OP posted. The store had another 686 sent to the store, it was worse than the first one and the crane wasn't square with the frame. The store manager said I could buy it and send it back to S&W to fix. Hmm, bought a used Ruger Redhawk .41 mag from a LGS that had no visible issues and shoots great and saved myself about $250 and a lot of aggravation I don't want. The 686 would have been the first S&W I have bought. I am cured of my new pistol blues.

I'm happy to see this thread has helped others.

 

[Invisible Hand]

if you got it from Bud's it probably IS brand new.
But I'm sure that the reason you 'ordered' it online was to save a few $$.
I see you live in the Dallas area there must be several quality indepedent gun stores within 50 miles. They are the backbone of the gun industry and serve a definite purpose-that of having inventory on had you can look at and but at a fair price.
"Don't confuse price with cost"

This thread is long, but you should check my posts before you make accusations. As I've stated, I tried to find it locally. I checked no less than 5 gun shops in my area for several months.

 

[buck460XVR]

Is S&W arguing with standards or ignoring them?

Neither. They have only stated that the gun falls within those standards. Don't like those standards, so be it. No one is forcing anyone to buy the products at those standards. No car dealer is going to do anything about a scratch in the paint after you have accepted delivery, taken the car home and driven it.

A 686, while not a entry level revolver, is not a Korth either. One does not buy a Chevy and expect it to be a Cadillac. Chevy's attention to detail is nuttin' like it was 50 years ago either. I'd assume what S&W is telling the OP is that his gun should shoot fine, if and when, he ever shoots it. Mking it look better cosmetically may not make it shoot any better and may result in more blemishes. Is the OP willing to accept this? Seems every gun I've even taken in for repair or an upgrade, even with the most reputable gunsmith comes back with a scratch/blemish that I didn't think was there before. Most of the time, it's not an issue because I mainly worry about how my guns shoot. As for resale, one only needs a buyer like the OP who does not examine a gun for every cosmetic blemish.

My suggestion is to shoot the gun and then decide if it's accuracy is caused by the crown and then decide from there. Once one starts to look at the gun from the back sight instead of at the business end of the barrel, one's idea of beauty may change.

 

[g5m]

I'm really surprised by the response from S&W. Any local competent gunsmith should be able to clean that up quickly, for a nominal fee. It's really a simple fix. Awesome gun!

Would that negate the warranty?

 

[TAC]

Would that negate the warranty?

I wouldn't think so, but it's best to ask S&W. I'm not aware that only S&W can do work on their firearms, or you lose the warranty.

Someone who knows for sure, please advise us. Thanks.

 

[g5m]

Just wondering because most warranties have a statement about alterations, etc.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Well, other than the 642-2 (with the dreaded lock) I bought earlier this year as a BUG, I haven't bought a new Smith & Wesson in decades. The last new one was a 4 inch 629-1 in 1982. The first time I fired it, the barrel rotated. It went back to the distributor (WISCHO in Germany), and came back "fixed" with a clear but "within specs" gap between the frame and the barrel shoulder. I kept it until elbow surgery made it impossible to shoot because prone from sandbags it would shoot 6 inch groups at 100 yards!

Nothing I've seen in years compares to my 1963 vintage 2 inch Model 12-2 round butt, my 1977 vintage 4 inch Model 10-5 square butt, or my 1982 3 inch Model 13-3 round butt in terms of fit and finish.

 

[army-eod]

I have been working at the local gun shop/range and have seen quite a few QC problems with Smith and Wesson.

One in particular was a Performance Center 44 Mag with a bolted on muzzle brake. I noticed that the customer's revolver had a serious problem after coming off the range. The brake was loose, tilted downward and part of the brake was actually broken off; assume a round hit it on the way out of the bbl. Not good.

This customer returned that revolver to Smith FOUR TIMES before it would shoot rounds without muzzle brake coming loose.

Personally, I would have asked for a full refund after the first problem. It could have caused very serious problems.

I am not buying any new Smiths. I have an older -2 and am shopping for another.

But new; no.

Sorry, but this is just a fact. The QC is terrible.