Ah, it just warms my heart to see how high stress and emotional events pull families together and bring out the best in folks.
My Dad's Living Trust Is Finally Disolved!
- Thread starter Wyatt Burp
- Start date
Class Act
My Dad and his brother, Uncle Bob, were the ultimate heirs to their 5 "old maid" aunts' estates. Bob was the executor and was pulling some pretty sleezy moves.
My mother would nag Dad about doing something with respect to Bob's behavior. His hearing would fail him, he'd head down cellar to his workshop.
I was 18yrs old, one day Dad and I were alone in the car on a road trip. I asked him why he was letting Bob screw him. Dad got pretty angry, in no uncertain terms he told me he'd never counted on that inheiratance, it wasn't his money, whatever came his way was a gift. He went on to say that he and my uncle had never gotten along, this could very well be the last interaction they'd have. It was important to Dad that they conclude this buisness in a civil manner even if Bob come out ahead financially.
In my eyes Dad grew another foot that day. I've tried to conduct myself in a similar fashion.
Kevin
My Dad and his brother, Uncle Bob, were the ultimate heirs to their 5 "old maid" aunts' estates. Bob was the executor and was pulling some pretty sleezy moves.
My mother would nag Dad about doing something with respect to Bob's behavior. His hearing would fail him, he'd head down cellar to his workshop.
I was 18yrs old, one day Dad and I were alone in the car on a road trip. I asked him why he was letting Bob screw him. Dad got pretty angry, in no uncertain terms he told me he'd never counted on that inheiratance, it wasn't his money, whatever came his way was a gift. He went on to say that he and my uncle had never gotten along, this could very well be the last interaction they'd have. It was important to Dad that they conclude this buisness in a civil manner even if Bob come out ahead financially.
In my eyes Dad grew another foot that day. I've tried to conduct myself in a similar fashion.
Kevin
OP
Wyatt Burp
Member
My situation was the reverse of that. Like I said, i was the trustee of the estate and was splitting everything up evenly right down to a small collection of about twenty mercury dimes. But that wasn't good enough for my brother who did nothing but hinder my progress. So I found out his true nature as he tried to slyly rip us off but failed. It wasn't the money but the fact that he was trying to do this. And we were best of freinds prior to this. He just picked some new priorities.
I had one priority. To do EXACTLY what my dad wanted. And when another family member with dollar signs in his eyes attempts to modify that for his own personal gain, I'll come down on him in the harshest, most legally vindictive way imaginable. I don't wait for God to sort this stuff out. I'll take care of that myself so I can still stand looking at myself in the mirror. And let me tell you. The feeling of satisfaction I got from that is beyond description. And I don't miss my brother at all. As far as I'm concerned he died the day my dad did.
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Wyatt; This brings back memories. I'm an only child of an only child. Dad died early ]58] but Mom lived another 31 years. Mom trusted my girl cousin in Denver to do right by me. Guess again. I made out OK but will never speak to my cousin again. Her only God is money.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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As ghoulish or as mercenary as it sounds, these are the sorts of things that need to be discussed and planned for long in advance. One friend told me that his fairly affluent grandfather repeatedly told him he would
pay for Grandson's college and medical school. Unfortunately, Grandma died, Grandad remarried, and as my friend said "Out of a $2M estate the children and grandchildren weren't even MENTIONED!"
pay for Grandson's college and medical school. Unfortunately, Grandma died, Grandad remarried, and as my friend said "Out of a $2M estate the children and grandchildren weren't even MENTIONED!"
truckemup97
Member
Make more than one copy and leave them with multiple trusted people. My FIL's parents died within a few months of each other. They were both in the hospital at the same time, and FIL's dear sis made almost daily trips to the house to get them things, take care of the house, etc. During one of these trips, she apparently found the will. She didn't like it, so she got rid of it. The attorney had been dead for several years and no records of his could be found. So, everything went into probate and was split 50/50 like the state wanted, not like the dead folks wanted. Everyone knew FIL was supposed to get a piece of land and sis was supposed to get the house, but the land was worth more than the house. That's why she got rid of the will. Now FIL has to sell both and split the money with sis. Except sis decided FIL wasn't moving fast enough, and sued to force a sheriff's sale of the land. The result was that it sold for about half of what it was worth. Long story short, nobody, dead or alive, got what they wanted.
Maybe some of our attorneys can let us know how to avoid someone stealing the will?
OP
Wyatt Burp
Member
Truck, the sad part is how common this seems to be. Look how many people just on this thread have encountered bloodthirsty relatives. And like you said, when the greed kicks in everyone, including the parasite relative, ends up losing. We have a freind who's brothers hounded her over the sale of their deseased dad's house sale even though she was doing it right. But they want more so in the end they all took a loss. And Child Support Services got an anonymous call and the worst brother of all got his share taken away for past delinquent support payments.
Ten years before my dad was even sick my brother's wife called my dad in a drugged out state of mind telling him my wife is going to make me keep all his money when he died and cheat the other kids. My dad flew off the handle at her and got a clear picture of what they talked about and were obsessing over his money. That's why he put me in charge even though I'm six years younger than my brother.
Ten years before my dad was even sick my brother's wife called my dad in a drugged out state of mind telling him my wife is going to make me keep all his money when he died and cheat the other kids. My dad flew off the handle at her and got a clear picture of what they talked about and were obsessing over his money. That's why he put me in charge even though I'm six years younger than my brother.
OP
Wyatt Burp
Member
Ooops. Accidently repeated my post.
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Rugskipper
Member
Wyatt,
I'm very sorry to hear that you lost your Dad and your brother that day. The only good thing about losing a loved one to death is that you can grieve, say goodbye and mourn them. When you lose one to greed, you can't. That makes it worse.
My grandmother passed after 105 pretty good years, and I was co-trustee of her estate. Split everything three ways between her children just like she had planned. Of course, she hadn't planned on one of her daughters, and that daughter's daughter passing away before she did. Result was that 1/6 of her estate went to a con artist and convicted felon great-grandson. I had no choice. The rest of her grandchildren got nothing, as the thought was their parents (her children) would distribute as they saw fit. He only came to visit her once, and that was to beg for money. He was wanted at the time of her passing, and somehow the authorities found out where he was hiding.
I hung on to his check for three years, then dutifully sent it to him on the day he got out. You should have heard him whine when nobody would take a three year old check from a felon with no bank accounts, and why the hell didn't I give him cash instead?
Not my problem.
I'm very sorry to hear that you lost your Dad and your brother that day. The only good thing about losing a loved one to death is that you can grieve, say goodbye and mourn them. When you lose one to greed, you can't. That makes it worse.
My grandmother passed after 105 pretty good years, and I was co-trustee of her estate. Split everything three ways between her children just like she had planned. Of course, she hadn't planned on one of her daughters, and that daughter's daughter passing away before she did. Result was that 1/6 of her estate went to a con artist and convicted felon great-grandson. I had no choice. The rest of her grandchildren got nothing, as the thought was their parents (her children) would distribute as they saw fit. He only came to visit her once, and that was to beg for money. He was wanted at the time of her passing, and somehow the authorities found out where he was hiding.
I hung on to his check for three years, then dutifully sent it to him on the day he got out. You should have heard him whine when nobody would take a three year old check from a felon with no bank accounts, and why the hell didn't I give him cash instead?Not my problem.
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4 years ago yesterday my Father passed away, He had made me the executor of his will. He had remarried and adopted young kids several years earlier which he regretted later as it became a way for my step-mom to dominate their marriage. My Dad had spent the last 30 years of his life as a quadriplegic in a wheel chair.
When the time came I had the will read and She contested everything saying that because of the 2 school age children they deserved everything. After much discussion with Family members and the "All Mighty",
I decided that the harm that would be caused by fighting was far worse than letting her have her way. I walked away with a feeling of peace and a clean conscience .
He wanted the young kids to get most everything he just wanted me to control the moneys and disbursements. She on the other hand wanted nothing to do with me or my Brothers & Sisters. The feeling was mutual.
The night before I made my decision Dad came to me in my sleep (dream) and said "Let it go"......
Yesterday was my birthday, Dad passed away on my birthday in 2007 just as his Dad had passed away on his Birthday in 1965. Dont know if it means anything but I know I will forever have a discussion with him on those days in the future.
When the time came I had the will read and She contested everything saying that because of the 2 school age children they deserved everything. After much discussion with Family members and the "All Mighty",
I decided that the harm that would be caused by fighting was far worse than letting her have her way. I walked away with a feeling of peace and a clean conscience .
He wanted the young kids to get most everything he just wanted me to control the moneys and disbursements. She on the other hand wanted nothing to do with me or my Brothers & Sisters. The feeling was mutual.
The night before I made my decision Dad came to me in my sleep (dream) and said "Let it go"......
Yesterday was my birthday, Dad passed away on my birthday in 2007 just as his Dad had passed away on his Birthday in 1965. Dont know if it means anything but I know I will forever have a discussion with him on those days in the future.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Knock on wood, I never heard of these storys in my huge extended family. I sure have heard of it elsewhere many times. I think what complicates things more now than years ago is the "blended" familys due to the higher divorice rate. Now days it`s the norm for everyone raiseing everyone else`s step kids and half brothers and sisters. I now have step kids that were out of the house too before I ever met their mother.
I still have to redo my trust and keep putting it off! The rules keep changing the older you get!
I still have to redo my trust and keep putting it off! The rules keep changing the older you get!
Brian41
Member
Yes, it's a good day once done. I handled my Dad's estate and my older sister didn't like that. She contested me in probate and I had to hire the estate attorney all over again to settle it. Once she learned my brother and I had legally overpaid her $20,000 did she settle and got less than I was giving her in the first place. (The reason we overpaid was a moral one and we didn't see it as a legal decision but should have)
She hasn't spoken to either of us in years and likely never will. Greed really comes out in people you'd never suspect when money is involved.
She hasn't spoken to either of us in years and likely never will. Greed really comes out in people you'd never suspect when money is involved.
Good to read that you have successfully concluded your opportunity to conclude your father's affairs. As executor I went through a similar experience closing out my father's estate. It as very small. My sister-in-law was the one who acted ugly. My little brother was an absolute prince of a fellow throughout the entire process. I saw to it that my sil got what she was supposed to get. Same for my brother. My brother had provided 90% of the care for mom and dad. I was to many miles away to be available. My other brother lived in town but was busy. As executor I was by my father's will privileged to divide things as I saw fit. Everyone got 1/3. However, all shop equipment, tools and vehicles either running or not running were sold for $5.00 to my brother. This was to recognize the extreme amount of effort he put forth for the 13 years that he took care of our parents. It was some compensation. My sil was not happy. But she'll get over it. If she had not tried to take my mother's wedding rings and other jewelry, things would have been different.
explorer13421
Member
As stated in a prior post, I am an attorney in New York State, and what I say is accurate with respect to New York State law, but necessarily the law of other states.
A will belongs to the person who makes it. He or she can take it with them when they leave my office, or I will store it for them. My experience and observation is that wills left with an attorney rarely end up missing. Even if a copy of a missing will can be found, if the original was in the hands of the testator the possibility is that the testator, the person making the will, revoked the will by destroying the original. A will can be filed with the Court in New York.
Attorneys recommend that the original will be left in their safekeeping for two reasons. One is, as mentioned above, the original is less likely to go missing. The second is the hope that when the testator dies the person nominated to be executor will hire the attorney who stored the will to assist the executor in offering the will to the court (probate) and in assisting in administering the estate. An executor is free to hire any attorney they want to help, not necessarily the attorney who prepared or stored the will.
A testator nominates an executor in the will. The Court reviews the will during the probate process to makes sure the will was prepared and signed as required by law, and reviews any objections to the will on the grounds that the terms of the will were the result of someone's undue influence on the testator. If the will is approved, the Court appoints the executor and the executor is then authorized to carry out the terms of the will by collecting the assets, paying bills and distributing the rest of the estate as directed by the will.
I have prepared simple will, and complex wills. The amount of time to collect information and interview the person making the will is usually about the same regardless of how complicated the will is. It takes about the same amount of time to explain to people what the process involves, how to revoke the will, and cover the other things I think should be covered. As said above, you get what you pay for. If you want cheap, be prepared to be interviewed by a glorified secretary and get a one-size-fits-all will with minor modifications. That might be appropriate, but it takes education, experience and judgment to know if it is appropriate, and I have never met a legal secretary, administrative assistant or paralegal who I thought was properly capable of deciding simple will or complex will.
Many of the previous posts relate stories that probably did not come out the way the testator wanted. I think a properly prepared will, with pre-death instructions to the nominated executor, could avoid many of those unintended outcomes.
Most adults should have a will, especially if they have minor children. How to deal with minors has not been mentioned, so no horrible stories about who ends up with the kids have come out. Wills should be reviewed every year by the testator to make sure they do what is wanted. I suggest doing so each year when income taxes are prepared. An attorney should be consulted when there is a major change in someone's life, such as marriage, birth of child, death of spouse, inheriting property, and ESPECIALLY divorce. If you are aware of changes in the law that apply, talk to a lawyer. Otherwise, I suggest having a lawyer check your will every 3 to 5 years to make sure it still will accomplish what you want.
I try to get people to tell me what they want in two or three scenarios. For example, most married people want their estate to go to surviving spouse. What if spouse predeceases? Usually they want children to inherit. Suppose you have three children and one of them dies survived by your grandchild. Do you want your two surviving children to divide the estate and exclude your grandchild, or do you want your grandchild to inherit his mother/father's share? Thinking these kinds of things through and reflecting a plan a, plan b, plan c, etc. results in a will that might not need to be changed for years or ever.
A will belongs to the person who makes it. He or she can take it with them when they leave my office, or I will store it for them. My experience and observation is that wills left with an attorney rarely end up missing. Even if a copy of a missing will can be found, if the original was in the hands of the testator the possibility is that the testator, the person making the will, revoked the will by destroying the original. A will can be filed with the Court in New York.
Attorneys recommend that the original will be left in their safekeeping for two reasons. One is, as mentioned above, the original is less likely to go missing. The second is the hope that when the testator dies the person nominated to be executor will hire the attorney who stored the will to assist the executor in offering the will to the court (probate) and in assisting in administering the estate. An executor is free to hire any attorney they want to help, not necessarily the attorney who prepared or stored the will.
A testator nominates an executor in the will. The Court reviews the will during the probate process to makes sure the will was prepared and signed as required by law, and reviews any objections to the will on the grounds that the terms of the will were the result of someone's undue influence on the testator. If the will is approved, the Court appoints the executor and the executor is then authorized to carry out the terms of the will by collecting the assets, paying bills and distributing the rest of the estate as directed by the will.
I have prepared simple will, and complex wills. The amount of time to collect information and interview the person making the will is usually about the same regardless of how complicated the will is. It takes about the same amount of time to explain to people what the process involves, how to revoke the will, and cover the other things I think should be covered. As said above, you get what you pay for. If you want cheap, be prepared to be interviewed by a glorified secretary and get a one-size-fits-all will with minor modifications. That might be appropriate, but it takes education, experience and judgment to know if it is appropriate, and I have never met a legal secretary, administrative assistant or paralegal who I thought was properly capable of deciding simple will or complex will.
Many of the previous posts relate stories that probably did not come out the way the testator wanted. I think a properly prepared will, with pre-death instructions to the nominated executor, could avoid many of those unintended outcomes.
Most adults should have a will, especially if they have minor children. How to deal with minors has not been mentioned, so no horrible stories about who ends up with the kids have come out. Wills should be reviewed every year by the testator to make sure they do what is wanted. I suggest doing so each year when income taxes are prepared. An attorney should be consulted when there is a major change in someone's life, such as marriage, birth of child, death of spouse, inheriting property, and ESPECIALLY divorce. If you are aware of changes in the law that apply, talk to a lawyer. Otherwise, I suggest having a lawyer check your will every 3 to 5 years to make sure it still will accomplish what you want.
I try to get people to tell me what they want in two or three scenarios. For example, most married people want their estate to go to surviving spouse. What if spouse predeceases? Usually they want children to inherit. Suppose you have three children and one of them dies survived by your grandchild. Do you want your two surviving children to divide the estate and exclude your grandchild, or do you want your grandchild to inherit his mother/father's share? Thinking these kinds of things through and reflecting a plan a, plan b, plan c, etc. results in a will that might not need to be changed for years or ever.
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OP
Wyatt Burp
Member
Thanks, explorer, for the expertise. I could bring up fixing the fuel pump on the space shuttle and I swear there are folks here who could shed light on the problem.
Matt, glad that you got through it OK, I'm just starting the process, as my dad died March 6. Whoever wrote, "I've learned that money does not change people, it reveals them." Pegged it, my younger sister, who never earned a decent living in her life, arrived along with her soon to be forth Ex and started to make demands. I explained that she could have $20,000.00 to hold her until I could meet with the trust broker and get all the stock "stepped up" so it could be divided. Not good enough according to the princess, she needs $100,000.00 now. I tell her not now, that she has 2.5 million b-4 taxes coming but it's going to take 6 -12 months. Not good enough for her. Long story short, I knew dad had some ready cash stashed away so I gave her $25K and told her to get the hell out of town. Very sad.
Snapping Twig
Member
That would be me.
Take heart in the fact that these "people" give warning signs along the way if you're able to recognize them. Too many people aren't cynical enough and too easily place trust in their fellow man.
I give people the benefit of the doubt, but I also give them enough rope to hang themselves and I judge them by what they do, not what they say.
Hold tight onto those you love, they are the worthwhile ones.
OP
Wyatt Burp
Member
I gave out an initial $10,000 to my brother and sister, just to give me breathing room to get things moving, even though only one of them was a pain in the...I kept my $10,000 in the account until the house sold just in case of an emergency. I also gave a nephew $5000 which was just word of mouth from my dad, but I think that was dangerous. Another trustee can say it wasn't written down and so I couldn't do that. But I got signed statements after from the two others aknowledging this wish of my dad's so that covered me.
Our lawyers here can correct me on this, but I'd ask a lawyer before handing out cash right off the bat. I think there's a procedure for that that protects the executor of the trust but can't remember the details.
Is there a soulless parasite in every family? Reading these replies and my own story makes me think so.
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feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Matt, dad had alzheimers. He bugged my aunt every day as she lived walking distance from the rest home, didnt like the rest homes food and liked aunt helens cooking. She also took care of his laundry, took him to his doctors, and did most of his PW. Poor aunt helen had recently buried her husband after nurseing HIM with alzheimers too for many years.
Aunt helen was/is about 15 to 18 years younger than dad. Dad had like 6 older half brothers and sisters older than him, dad was the oldest of 10 in the secound family. Dad the oldest, helen about third from the bottom.
As dad got worse into alzheimers he got it in his head that helen was his daughter, not his kid sister! He told me in his more lucid moments that he wanted to do something for helen, but he never put it on paper. After he died legaly we didnt have to, but I and sis gave 10 G apiece to aunt helen. She deserved more than that!
While many familys do fight over money, thank God mine never did. Dad had as said, 6 older half sibelins, and was the oldest of 10 more! Grandpa`s first wife died young and left him with 5 kids. Grandma had just arrived in this country a young widow with one boy. They met and married exactly one month after grandpa buried his 1st wife. Dad was born exactly 9 months after the wedding! Grandpa was 12 or 13 years older than grandma.
Out of the 16 kids there was only one divorice! AND that uncle latter met his ex wife and remarried her! It was a different day and age. However I and many of all my dozzens of cousins cant say the same!
Aunt helen was/is about 15 to 18 years younger than dad. Dad had like 6 older half brothers and sisters older than him, dad was the oldest of 10 in the secound family. Dad the oldest, helen about third from the bottom.
As dad got worse into alzheimers he got it in his head that helen was his daughter, not his kid sister! He told me in his more lucid moments that he wanted to do something for helen, but he never put it on paper. After he died legaly we didnt have to, but I and sis gave 10 G apiece to aunt helen. She deserved more than that!
While many familys do fight over money, thank God mine never did. Dad had as said, 6 older half sibelins, and was the oldest of 10 more! Grandpa`s first wife died young and left him with 5 kids. Grandma had just arrived in this country a young widow with one boy. They met and married exactly one month after grandpa buried his 1st wife. Dad was born exactly 9 months after the wedding! Grandpa was 12 or 13 years older than grandma.
Out of the 16 kids there was only one divorice! AND that uncle latter met his ex wife and remarried her! It was a different day and age. However I and many of all my dozzens of cousins cant say the same!
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