Pondhill
Member
That is one nice pistol. I am from Mass also, I only have 1 plastic pistol it's a M&P45c. All the rest of my S&Ws are metal.
My First Ever 3rd Gen
- Thread starter TTSH
- Start date
I believe it was Dirty Harry Callahan who once said: "A man's got to know his limitations"!
Lord knows that I know mine. And when I forget, my thin wallet reminds me. 
In other words, I will never be able to own them all. For me, the trick is to get a reasonable representative sample of the sizes, weights, features and calibers in the best conditions possible without ending up in the poor house. That, by itself, is a tall enough task. Add to that the Massachusetts purchasing restrictions and the challenge becomes much greater.
Everyone collects a little differently with different purposes and focus. Historically, collecting-wise, I'd been more of a modern era revolver guy... but I always liked my original Model 59. Wish I had bought an original Model 39 at the time too (one of my biggest regrets).
Now that my Rip Van Winkle style "deep sleep" has ended, I'm all about making up for what I missed while asleep: 2nd Gen's (in a limited way), 3rd Gen's (mainly) and the SW99 variants. If anyone has any specific semi-auto models that they feel are of particular significance to the recent history of S&W pre-M&P's, I'd love to hear your suggestions for my collection.
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I think I am done with plastic for a while.
In S&W, I've got an M&P40, a Shield 9mm and a couple of SDVE's. No regrets on any of them. But it was time (actually overdue) for something substantial... something all-metal. 
So I put off my search for SW99 variants and refocused on 3rd Gen's. My timing was perfect. Still can't believe how lucky I was.
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lhump1961
US Veteran
The younger crowd that has never known anything but plastic usually don't give these guns a second glance, but if they can be convinced to actually shoot one they change their minds quick. My son-in-law is 25. He's a great kid who has come to appreciate the 3rd gens (and revolvers). I gave my daughter her choice of personal firearm and she went with a 6906...she shoots it well and it serves as her HD gun. Long story short the hubby takes it to the range regularly.
Congrats on a great gun!
Congrats on a great gun!
nocents
Member
If anyone has any specific semi-auto models that they feel are of particular significance to the recent history of S&W pre-M&P's, I'd love to hear your suggestions for my collection.
the first consideration is decide which caliber/calibers you want to focus on....since you already have the 6906 I am thinking 9mm will be one....and it probably should be in everybodys collection...then..decide the fire control platform that you are more comfortable with TDA,DAO,or SAO....makes the hunt for 3rd. gens a lot easier.....myself I limit my choices to TDA 9mm and .45acp.......so when I happen onto a fine .40sw or 10mm.....I just grit my teeth...wipe the perspiration from my brow and move on.....and my wallet appreciates it.......and you are right....Harry Callahan did say "a man needs to know his limitations"..........and I do
...........and as the one gun that should be part of a 3 rd. gen collection........well depending on your caliber choice......if .45acp is in you future....a 4506 is pretty much mandatory .........pretty sure it's state law 
My original Smith was a 59. Still carry it along with a 5906, love the stainless especially in the summer when sweating. Never will buy plastic, no need. Also have my orugnal 39 in nickel, never been shot but the prettiest gun I own.
Thank you!The younger crowd that has never known anything but plastic usually don't give these guns a second glance, but if they can be convinced to actually shoot one they change their minds quick. My son-in-law is 25. He's a great kid who has come to appreciate the 3rd gens (and revolvers). I gave my daughter her choice of personal firearm and she went with a 6906...she shoots it well and it serves as her HD gun. Long story short the hubby takes it to the range regularly.
Congrats on a great gun!
When you say... "The younger crowd that has never known anything but plastic usually don't give these guns a second glance" ... that really rings true. But terrible, old, selfish me; I hope it stays that way just a little while longer until the 3rd Gen part of my collection is where I want it to be! Am I a bad person for feeling that way?
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Thank you!
Am I a bad person for feeling that way?
Too late, I'm on to you guys! I'm waking up with cold sweats thinking about a 4506
It has always fascinated me how gun collectors and collections vary. Different strokes for different folks I guess. As much as we are alike, we are different. Practical matters can be significant too. Lord knows we are not all wealthy. We don't all live in areas and under political regimes that are conducive to successful gun collecting. Some of us bring history to the table that causes us to focus in one direction vs. another. Sometimes it is just sheer personal preferences or chance opportunities. Some like old, some like new. The list of variables is almost endless. I could talk about it for hours.the first consideration is decide which caliber/calibers you want to focus on....since you already have the 6906 I am thinking 9mm will be one....and it probably should be in everybodys collection...then..decide the fire control platform that you are more comfortable with TDA,DAO,or SAO....makes the hunt for 3rd. gens a lot easier.....myself I limit my choices to TDA 9mm and .45acp.......so when I happen onto a fine .40sw or 10mm.....I just grit my teeth...wipe the perspiration from my brow and move on.....and my wallet appreciates it.......and you are right....Harry Callahan did say "a man needs to know his limitations"..........and I do
My own story can be summed up like this: Man who grew up in the shadow of S&W's Springfield plant starts off collecting mainly S&W revolvers and a few early generation semi-autos.
Same man unfortunately goes Rip Van Winkle for 25+ years and wakes up to find pistols are now all plastic! Man wonders what the Hell happened? 
Man sets out to figure out all that he missed while asleep and to get his S&W collection back on track. I've said it before: The evolution of the S&W semi-auto interests me just as much as (and sometimes even more than) the guns themselves. I'm not necessarily out to own the absolute best of the S&W semi-autos. Rather, I am out to acquire the ones that best illustrate the engineering & business evolution of S&W semi-autos into what they are today, including the painful transition from all-metal to plastic. Since much (most? all?) of that S&W semi-auto history was driven by the law enforcement market, that is my first interest. What did cops want? What did cops buy? What worked? What didn't?
In that regard, I don't see my collection having a limited caliber focus nor a limited firing platform focus. While I have always preferred DA/SA for my own personal use, I want to own examples of each caliber and each platform.
And Lord knows that I'd love to own a 10mm 3rd Gen someday. In short, what S&W gun models best define the evolution of the S&W semi-auto? For the most part, I would think they would also be the most popular/successful/mainstream models, but not always.
The 4506 is absolutely on my want list.
Quite frankly, I thought it was going to be my very first 3rd Gen. Only scarcity (within MA) and very high asking prices have probably pushed that back to my third or fourth likely 3rd Gen acquisition.
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dondavis3
Member
Congratulations on your new Gen 3.
I own 2 now and carried one as a cop.
But I also like Sig's and plastic guns
Plastic is so much easier to carry
I own 2 now and carried one as a cop.
But I also like Sig's and plastic guns
Plastic is so much easier to carry
Shorty 45 MK2
Member
Congratulations on your new Gen 3.
I own 2 now and carried one as a cop.
But I also like Sig's and plastic guns
Plastic is so much easier to carry
They sure are easier to carry on the mind since all that needs to be done to replace one is go to the LGS.
I have a plastic pistol and do carry it a good deal, but like it in the same way I like my hammers of screwdrivers.
Too late, I'm on to you guys! I'm waking up with cold sweats thinking about a 4506
Oh, I know all about budgets.
Even practiced relatively on the cheap as I do it, gun collecting is an expensive hobby. And I am retired which has two important effects: 1) More time to shop around for desired collectible firearms... but, 2) A whole lot less money to pay for them. 
As mentioned earlier, there is a 4506 sitting right now in a local shop, but it is out of my reach financially at this time.
Just got to wait for the price to drop and pray that it doesn't sell in the meantime. Yep. I acknowledge that if I were a cop and needed to carry a full-size gun all day, I'd likely prefer plastic. And I do own a pretty good selection of plastic guns. But to an old club shooter and collector like myself, it's just not the same animal.Congratulations on your new Gen 3.
I own 2 now and carried one as a cop.
But I also like Sig's and plastic guns
Plastic is so much easier to carry
Perhaps my attitude toward plastic will change in time. I do get the advantages. I like the lower costs. They do work.
But would I have ever gotten into modern handgun collecting all those many years ago if all S&W made at the time were plastic guns?
I must say... probably not. My aging, curmudgeonly old mind just can't accept plastic guns as worthy collectibles. Efficient, effective, interesting tools, yes. But not collectibles. Not in my mind anyway.
loeman
Member
How Much for a 4506 in MA
Hey Macski222 and TTSH and all our other MASS friends,
You guys have mentioned several times in this thread that prices for guns in MA are pretty high or maybe even exorbitant! Can you share with the rest of us what you are dealing with there?
Lets just take one gun as an example that's not rare or unique (but certainly desirable). Let's use a perfectly functioning 4506 (any dash) in better than average condition with no significant cosmetic issues. Let's also say that it is gun and one magazine only, no box etc. etc. What would you have to pay?
Around here that gun could probably be had for around $450-$550 on average. I bought one in superb condition from a LGS nine months ago for $530 OTD. Also, I didn't consider it a great deal, but the condition made me feel ok about it.
Hey Macski222 and TTSH and all our other MASS friends,
You guys have mentioned several times in this thread that prices for guns in MA are pretty high or maybe even exorbitant! Can you share with the rest of us what you are dealing with there?
Lets just take one gun as an example that's not rare or unique (but certainly desirable). Let's use a perfectly functioning 4506 (any dash) in better than average condition with no significant cosmetic issues. Let's also say that it is gun and one magazine only, no box etc. etc. What would you have to pay?
Around here that gun could probably be had for around $450-$550 on average. I bought one in superb condition from a LGS nine months ago for $530 OTD. Also, I didn't consider it a great deal, but the condition made me feel ok about it.
There is no simple way to answer that question because prices vary wildly from shop to shop, as does gun condition plus accessories. The same 2nd Gen or 3rd Gen gun can cost double at one shop vs. another. Condition, number of magazines and original box vs. no box can affect asking prices a lot. Many of these are consignment guns where the owner sets the price. The shop owner has little or no control over it. Some are crazy high and occasionally one will be reasonable or even below market just to move it out fast.
But looking at averages (a very dangerous thing, actually!), here is what I would tell you: On any given 2nd Gen or 3rd Gen, go to Gunbroker's completed sales search function. Enter the model in question. Throw out any high or low flyers in the results and take the average of the selling prices of the rest. Add $100.00 (+/-) to that selling price and that's probably close to the initial asking price you might find at a semi-reasonable shop on a shop-owned gun or on a reasonably-priced (not overpriced) consignment gun. When a used gun doesn't move for a long period of time, some shops/owners will drop the price. Sometimes a little at a time. Sometimes a lot all at once. It can happen anywhere.
The pricing trend right now is currently downward. That's a good thing for me. But these are scarce guns. Averages and trends don't necessarily mean a whole lot. And the variation from shop to shop sometimes just makes you shake your head in wonderment.
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loeman
Member
TTSH,
Thanks for your kind response. Regarding Gunbroker, I never look there anymore. I did for awhile, but I quit because I knew that I would probably never buy a gun that I couldn't see in person, so why bother? Actually, that's not quite true as I do look at the for sale forum on this website, but that's the only online place I look. Our LGSs, pawn shops and shows have WAAAAY more fine and interesting guns than I can ever possibly consider purchasing.
I feel a much better barometer for prices (for NM) is in our LGSs, pawn shops and maybe shows. If a LGS has a very nice and desirable gun in stock but it remains unsold for a month or even more you can pretty much be assured that it is overpriced. The retail gun sales business is pretty competitive around here and pricing guns to a Gunbroker average would probably be counter productive for a good business model.
That being said, I do know of one pawn shop that does their pricing based on what they see on Gunbroker, I've actually seen them do it. Their monitor was turned away from me, but I could see Gunbroker reflected in a window behind the clerk as he was pricing new inventory. But whenever I visit this shop, I see pretty much the same inventory each time with the same astronomical price tags. They had a Md 686 no dash with 4 inch barrel in basically new condition for nearly $1K. I haven't been back for awhile, but I bet they still have it. I don't mean to disparage pawn shops, I love them! Some of my very best guns have been purchased in them at very fair prices. I recently bought a Md 39-2 in about 95% condition for $350 in a pawn shop. I thought I was going to get it for $300 from the clerk, but the manager just smiled and shook his head no.
Thanks for your kind response. Regarding Gunbroker, I never look there anymore. I did for awhile, but I quit because I knew that I would probably never buy a gun that I couldn't see in person, so why bother? Actually, that's not quite true as I do look at the for sale forum on this website, but that's the only online place I look. Our LGSs, pawn shops and shows have WAAAAY more fine and interesting guns than I can ever possibly consider purchasing.
I feel a much better barometer for prices (for NM) is in our LGSs, pawn shops and maybe shows. If a LGS has a very nice and desirable gun in stock but it remains unsold for a month or even more you can pretty much be assured that it is overpriced. The retail gun sales business is pretty competitive around here and pricing guns to a Gunbroker average would probably be counter productive for a good business model.
That being said, I do know of one pawn shop that does their pricing based on what they see on Gunbroker, I've actually seen them do it. Their monitor was turned away from me, but I could see Gunbroker reflected in a window behind the clerk as he was pricing new inventory. But whenever I visit this shop, I see pretty much the same inventory each time with the same astronomical price tags. They had a Md 686 no dash with 4 inch barrel in basically new condition for nearly $1K. I haven't been back for awhile, but I bet they still have it. I don't mean to disparage pawn shops, I love them! Some of my very best guns have been purchased in them at very fair prices. I recently bought a Md 39-2 in about 95% condition for $350 in a pawn shop. I thought I was going to get it for $300 from the clerk, but the manager just smiled and shook his head no.
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First off, for whatever reason, our few pawn shops up here in MA do not generally sell guns. Not 100% clear why but I assume our nanny laws somehow discourage it. So that source of bargain collectible finds is not available to us.
Secondly, our few MA gun shows generally exhibit higher prices for current and collectible guns, not lower prices. But our biggest current obstacle to gun collecting in MA is the EOPS Approved Firearms Roster (List #1) in combination with the Attorney General's top secret/unpublished allowed firearms list (List#2). In general, handguns sold by dealers must be on both lists, the published one and the secret one. No, I am not joking. In practice, the EOPS list is close to sacred and is religiously obeyed by 99.99% of the state's dealers. The AG's secret list is based on consumer protection law and is a little more "gray"... not surprising at all given its weird unpublished secret nature. Sometimes a gun will slip by the AG's criteria, but it doesn't happen too often.
The S&W 4506 is neither on the EOPS list or the AG's secret list. Could just be that it predated both or that S&W failed to submit it for testing or that it didn't meet some feature criteria. In that case, it can only be sold by a dealer if it has a confirmed MA pedigree. It cannot be brought into the state by a dealer for resale... so Gunbroker (or similar) is out.
Ignoring the exception for people moving into MA from other states, it really means you can only buy a 4506 if it is already here in MA... from a dealer if it has that MA pedigree or from an individual MA license holder face-to-face with or without a MA pedigree. The latter face-to-face option is likely to go away soon with currently pending anti-2A legislation.
So you see that we have a very limited pool of 4506's to choose from. We are not backstopped by the national marketplace. We are at the mercy of the dealers and individual owners here in MA who might be interested in selling. That's why initial asking prices are often well above what they are out in "free" America.
And if you think it is hard finding a Model 4506 at a reasonable price within MA, think about a Model 1006.
Three words: Close to impossible!!!
loeman
Member
Well, given that we aren't supposed to get into politics here I won't. But I do want to tell you and our other friends in MA and other similar places that we all empathize with you and wish you the best in creating a better political climate for you and your families.
I have a good idea, move to Texas, good economy, jobs and a ton of guns. 750.000 CHL.s including Rick Perry's and growing daily. But don't bring the MA. mind set with you. If your still voting democratic your stuck on STUPID.
I love Texas. Did a ton of work down there during my career. Damn near became my second home.
And just for the record, I've never voted for any Democrat except in Dem primary races to help eliminate the very worst Democrats. But family is up here and family needs me. Best I can hope for is to escape up into NH someday... but the property taxes up there are insanely high for a poor old retired couple.
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