My first post...(gonna get yelled at!)

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I ran across a set of statistics some time ago, but I forgot the website it was on...anyway for the past hump-teen years the majority of gun-deaths were caused by the 22 caliber, except for one year when the 25 ACP beat it out. I wonder what all these people are dying from....lead poisoning? I am sure we know where most of these deaths are occurring and they are not out here in rural America.

However...being out here in rural America and also being raised on a farm where we butchered our own animals, I have seen many 250-pound hogs drop over dead as a door-knocker after being shot right between the eyes with a 22-short. No...the hog was not charging, or pulling a weapon, or acting aggressive in any manner whatsoever and the shot could be placed in the correct spot. I admit that would be hard to do and would take an excellent marksman to be able and place the first shot right between the eyes. I have some cop buddies with clean kills on their record who have. Not with a 22 but a 9MM, but the point is....one 22 in the right place will do the job. I am not up on my anatomy and a hogs skull may not be as thick as a humans....all I know is time, after time, after time, they will fall over dead right then and there.I have also seen whitetail deer killed with buckshot and after dressing....find only one pellet in the right place.

My normal carry piece is a lightweight 38-Special and I am not advocating that everybody ought to carry a 22. I am just saying that a 22 will do the job if you know how to shoot it. I keep hearing and seeing this stuff about hyped-up bad guys that run around full of 38 or 45 slugs in their guts and I know it's true. If he is doped-up enough he will likely not know he has been shot with anything.

Contrary to the cowboy movies, a shooting victim does not get knocked off his feet and thrown through a wall, or 5 feet up into the air no matter what you shoot him with...except for a howitzer. A doped up BG that is out of his mind is not going to be knocked off his feet and be flipped through the air with a 357 Magnum a bit quicker than he will a 22. But, he will likely bleed-out quicker.
 
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Twenty two wouldn't be my first choice but I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of multiple shots fired from one either. I would feel much more comfortable with the 317 snubbie than with no gun at all.

Here are some chron results that might be of interest:

2” Lady Smith Airlite 317-2 Chron Results – Temp 70 – 3 Paces from Muzzle (Approx 9’):

WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,005 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 941 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 997 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 973 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 982 fps

CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 893 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 908 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 862 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 871 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 888 fps

CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,120 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,091 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,079 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,094 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,069 fps

Paul
 
Paul, Thanks for posting the chrono results for "Stingers" out of a 2" barrel. I really do handle the 640 with decent accuracy (6" groups at 20 yards), but just became so enamored with the 10+ ounce weight of the 317 as a possible CCW. Your results certainly do reflect that the .22 Stinger is not like the 5.7FN ammo. I must also confess that in the continuing cold, crappy on-going winter weather here in NW Ohio, I will infrequently carry a G19 in a Galco Miami Classic under one of my "Mr. Rogers" sweaters (any of you old enough to remember him?) or a lightweight jacket. The Glocks all seem too cumbersome for me to carry on the hip. Thanks to all for the feedback.
 
I, too, am "chronologically gifted". I'm guessing that you fell in love with the 317 after about 10 minutes; I know I did.
JMHO, but, just so that when you venture out into the world,
you're ready with Something. You may want to re-think if you suspect
you're going in harm's way.
A lot of real-life educated people have posted on this, so why not
post again after you decide? TACC1
 
22 as self defense/ccw has come up here many times...it's a poor choice...for any number of reasons...it simply lacks horsepower...fun to plink,train,target,small game...self defense?nooooooo
 
You know you ought to look at something like a 340sc. Mine weighs just a bit more than 14ozs loaded and it can be shot from a pocket if necessary. I have a 317 too and while lighter I really can't tell the difference between the two of them when in a back pocket. I do sometimes carry the 317 around my property but the likelyhood of needing to use it while here is just about zero. I have read too many stories about 22's not being able to penetrate a human skull and just sort of going around under the scalp.
 
I will add another slant to this. Where do you live, and what is the threat level??

I am an old retired guy who lives in a rural area. Low threat level.

I have multiple carry guns. My 638 normally has real carry ammo in it. I normally only carry it when I am dressed up, and going somewhere.

My most carried handgun at the moment would be my 64 HB 4". I put it on almost every day. My Summer ammo payload. Rounds 1 and 2 Speer Shot Shells. Rounds 3 thru 6 are 125 grain lead SWC's running about 800 fps. I normally have a couple speed strips with me. One full of extra shot shells, and the other with more 125 grain lead bullets.

I carry my 1911 Colt some also. No telling if I will have 230 round nose lead reloads or Hi Performance Hollow Points in it.

I strap on my 4" 617 part of the time. Especially if I might have a plinking session down at the creek.

I probably shoot my carry guns more than most. In the last 10 days I have killed 2 Cotton Mouth's and a Copperhead with my 64 Smith.

I had a one sided gun battle with some armodillow's a while back. I ended up getting a couple of them, and had 2 get away. I had pulled the Marble Fiber Optic front sight off my 7-1/2" 480 Ruger Super Redhawk, and put it on my 9-1/2" one. I put the red ramp back on it. I had not checked the open sights, figuring Midway would get another sight back in stock pretty quick. The gun was shooting high, or I would have gotten all 4 of them. After being out of stock for 6 months, I now have another Marble Fiber Optic sight on it.

My local dealer has a 351PD in stock. I have been looking it over when I am in the shop. The price is a little salty for what it is.

I work, and shoot in our Defensive Pistol Match every month, and I have for years. We have a Rimfire Division. I see way more accurate shooting with rimfire handguns than I do centerfire. We have lots of rimfire double tapps that a single paster will cover both holes. In the last match we had a low turnout due to a threat of rain that held off till we were done shooting. I had time to do some serious shooting for a change. I shot the match with my 64 using Comp III speed loaders, my 610 using full moon clips, my 638 in BUG using Comp I speed loaders, and my 617 using HKS speed loaders. My best score of the day was with my 617 in 6 shot configuration. A 617 is very hard to speed load quickly. That means I made up for the time with the score on the targets. There is alot to be said for being able to make accurate hits on the target quickly.

Bob
 
The odds of you ever needing to draw your carry gun are very, very small. The odds that you'll actually need to fire it are smaller still. The odds that the guy you'll need to fire at will be an doped-up NFL linebacker with an axe are infinitesimal.

*ALL* handguns suitable for everyday carry are, to be generous, sub-optimal. If we really wanted to ensure we had enough gun for whatever we might encounter we'd all be carrying rifles.

The trick is to find the gun that you think best balances convenience and need--for you. I'm comfortable carrying a .38 J-frame, but by all means carry whatever best suits you.
 
balistics and other numbers

I think Lee Child's character, "Jack Reacher" may have been the only case, even in fiction, of someone calculating the balistics of the ammo comming out of the gun that he would be shot with if he went after the individual weilding it, in that case, a .38 SPL, before jumping the guy. I don't remember the book... The CIA and The Mafia can't both be wrong at the same time, can they? (Oh Yeah). I read a statistic a number of years ago (quite a number) that stated that most deaths by hand guns were by .22 rim fires, at something like 11 feet, so if you are going to rely strictly on numbers, then EVERYBODY should start packing them little bad boys. Even without the endorsement of the CIA and The Mafia, the numbers are there for 22 carry, maybe. I know I won't be stepping up to vollunteer to see how effective the humble little 22 is, or water boarding either, even though it's not torture. By the way, what would water boarding be then, if it's not torture? But I'm getting further off the subject. Brother, you have been where the fast bullets fly, and you probably had a .22 there, which-in my view was junk, and put quite a few names on that black wall over by the Lincoln Memorial. Confidence goes a long way, and don't forget that south american stuff, Agilla (sp) that mozies out of .22 LR barrel at 1700+, whew! But there we go with those numbers again. Flapjack.
 
My 2 cents worth. First my thanks for your service in Vietnam. OK, so here goes my idea. Any gun in hand/accessible when needed is better then the one left at home. I always recommend that one carry the gun their most proficient with. As pointed out there are many variables as to what one carries. In winter I carry either a .44 special or a . 45 due to the fact they will penetrate many layer's of clothing or hide. Also easier to conceal in cold weather environment. In summer I'm "forced" to scale back to 9mm's or even .380's that I know I can drive into the eye socket if needed while I'm in the "city". What is your perceived threat level at any given time? If you can keep your rounds in the diameter of a dine at 7 feet and a quarter at 15 feet then the .22 will work if and when needed for you. We all need to be aware and re-evaluate our threat level as we age. To the scum we are easy targets if we require a cane or walker to make our way in everyday functioning. Just my thoughts, Kyle
 
Two more cents...

Is a 22 LR better than nothing? Yes. Is it better than most any other caliber? No.

The 22 LR has killed a lot of people over the years. Don't confuse stopping an assailant with killing him though. It won't do you any good to stop the bad guys's attack ten minutes after you expire.

It is also true that handguns in general are underpowered... but why choose the least of the underpowered? If size and weight are the big factor, the Ruger LCR makes a nice little pocket gun. It will handle 38 SPC +P and weighs only 13 ounces unloaded. The Hogue grips also keep recoil very manageable. Just a thought... do what you feel best about.

Or go with the flamethrower idea! :D
 
I am reminded that the late Bill Jordan thought that a 22mag. Snub made a great concealed carry gun. I can also say that my most recent buy is a 351C in 22 mag. It is extremely accurate and while I have yet to carry it seriously, I "kinda" am working towards that in my mind. The last time I carried a 22 in a serious situation was in the very late 60's when I dropped a snub kit gun and a box of hi-speed hps. in the pocket of my squad jacket to have in case I ran out of 357's during a couple of riot type situations. We worried about being pinned down and my partner and I were both going to at least keep shooting something. Man, that's a long time ago. That being said, if I knew there was going to be a gunfight my first preference would be to stay home and if that wasn't an option then going with a squad of "uncle sam's misguided children" would be my next most favorite thought. However since I can't carry concealed a stubby 308 M14, I am considering my new 351C. We shall see if I can really give up my favorite 642.
 
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Joe Kent said:
I am reminded that the late Bill Jordan thought that a 22mag. Snub made a great concealed carry gun. I can also say that my most recent buy is a 351C in 22 mag. It is extremely accurate and while I have yet ot carry it seriously I "kinda" am working towards that in my mind. The last time I carried a 22 in a serious situation was in the very late 60's when I dropped a snub kit gun and a box of hi-speed hps. in the pocket of my squad jacket to have in case I ran out of 357's during a couple of riot type situations. We worried about being pinned down and my partner and I were both going to at least keep shooting something. Man, that's a long time ago. That being said, if I knew there was going to be a gunfight my first preference would be to stay home and if that wasn't an option then going with a squad of "uncle sam's misguided children" would be my next most favorite thought. However since I can't carry concealed a stubby 308 M14, I am considering my new 351C. We shall see if I can really give up my favorite 642.
Click to expand...

And even if you don't hit them with the .22 mag, there's a good chance they will have a heart attack from the blast. Man those things are loud! :)
 
I sure can't add anything of substance to the discussion, only my opinion and what I've been advised to do for CC protection. One of my "mentors" wisely told me, #1 - if you have to draw your gun, it will be the worst day of your life. #2 - if you you have to draw your gun, you will wish you had something bigger.
 
I have killed quite a few deer with a .22 when I was a kid. We pretty much lived off the land and my mom kinda depended on my sister and I to harvest game for the family. I shot a good sized buck one time at around 50 yards. The .22 long rifle round went in behind the ear and exited between his eyes as did his brains. I think the .22 lr is one of the best rounds ever invented. It is all in placement, which is made easy with the accuracy of a .22. I like the mini mags better that the stingers, but that's just me.
Peace,
gordon
 
Now, this is purely an anecdote:

Forty years ago, I was shot with a .22 LR. If I remember right, it was a standard, Peters, green-box, plinking load. You know the kind==By 'em by the brick and keep a couple around. Stray boxes in every backpack, vehicle, desk drawer around the house.

Lower leg/foot. Several bones shattered. Walked into the ER by myself. However, the Navy medic on duty took one look and commented".22, huh? They do more damage than .38s"==seems that soft lead bullet is the issue.

Now, I'm not advocating carrying a .22 but several periods when I was in college, the only gun I had was a .22 (I was 18 during the Watts Riots in LA and had a Single Six by my bed for a week). I now carry a .38 at the least and usually a .45 acp.

I've hunted enough and shot enough to know placement is king. Carry what you hit with and the MOST you feel confidant hitting with!
 
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