My FS M&P 9mm is coming back from S&W for accuracy issues....

[Nakanokalronin]

Well I just got off the phone with S&W and they said my M&P is on it's way back. You wanna know the work they did to it?? They adjusted the GD sights.

I then spent a little time talking to the guy about the accuracy issues and how Apex is making new locking blocks and barrels to fix this issue. He was a aware of both companies and said "huh" when I told him. He also mentioned Storm Lake was going to make barrels as well.

He then asked what ammo I was using, I told him and he said they seem to work best with 124gr +P ammo. I told him that was one of the 7 different types of ammo I tried in 2 different brands. I wasn't really looking for him to do anything over the phone but it's good to pass on any info to them.

It seems S&W did nothing but test it at 15 yards and adjust sights that were not off at all. Maybe they put some sights in that change and predict when a bullet is going to shoot 6" off from the last one.. Hopefully they send a target with the gun since I have no clue what grouping they got.

I read the entire thread over at M4carbine.net about the accuracy issues and if you haven't yet, go check it out since it has responses from Randy Lee himself. Guess I'll try the Band-aid fix with the 20# spring and wait for Apex to release the locking blocks and barrels.

As a back story, I started a thread here questioning early unlocking issues. I then noticed that after using 7 different brands of ammo in 3 different weights, bench resting or off hand got me no better than a 10" group at 15yards. This was not a high,low,left or right type of group but a nice circular group with even one round almost dead center. A S&W tech told me 3" at 25 yards is what they are suppose to get so I'm assuming 10" at 15 yards is exactly what I'll get back since adjusting sights had nothing to do with it.

I got these groups with the stock set-up, with the Apex sear and my DIY polish job on the striker block. The trigger is better than 90% of my other handguns and I've had quite a few hammer,striker, DAO/DA-SA/SAO handguns that shoot much better at longer distances.Heck, the little BG380 I just bought got 3" groups at 15 yards my first time out.

BTW, above is just a back story, not something to revive any argument that it's me and not the gun and obvious issues. I didn't want to revive the old thread since it was a wash of different responses about different things.

 

[CJ.]

You say that you did an Apex sear and a DIY polish job....did that affect the warranty at all?

 

[Nakanokalronin]

You say that you did an Apex sear and a DIY polish job....did that affect the warranty at all?

I took the Apex sear out before I sent it in and I'm sure the polish job on the striker block went unnoticed so nothing affected the warranty.

ETA: All they probably did was shoot the gun, tap the rear sight over and call it "in-spec". I'm sure the slide was never removed from the frame.

 

[budrichard]

For what its worth, my wife's new S&W M&P 9mm with factory Novak Night sights will shoot 2" groups hand rested at 10 yds all day long. No modifications, straight factory, great trigger, just a hint of creep before the break. Has been 100% reliable with Speer 124 gr Lawman and Win NATO. Win 115 gr will not function reliably but I haven;t been able to get that ammo to function 100% in any new 9mm pistol.
She is quite happy with her M&P and it will replace her GEN4 G19.-Dick

 

[Nakanokalronin]

For what its worth, my wife's new S&W M&P 9mm with factory Novak Night sights will shoot 2" groups hand rested at 10 yds all day long. No modifications, straight factory, great trigger, just a hint of creep before the break. Has been 100% reliable with Speer 124 gr Lawman and Win NATO. Win 115 gr will not function reliably but I haven;t been able to get that ammo to function 100% in any new 9mm pistol.
She is quite happy with her M&P and it will replace her GEN4 G19.-Dick

I wish mine shot like that although your FS 9mm should shoot no more than a 3" group at 25 yards according to S&W. Have you ever tried to shoot it at that distance?

A member just told me he had accuracy issues with his M&P but they are currently sending his gun back with a new barrel.

I'm not sending mine back in again even if it's off when I test the stock recoil spring and 20# recoil spring side by side. Total nonsense to send in a gun expecting something and all they do is move a sight over. If needed, I'll wait for the gurus at Apex to fix it properly.

I've already sent in a Solo for the slide not locking back on an empty mag twice and both times it came back with the same problem. I no longer own the Solo which is why I went with the Shield I'm finally picking up today. I mention the Solo since it seems S&W's repair section is no better than some if I need to send it in multiple times for them to finally do something right or before my gun goes to the guy who knows what to look for. Although slide to frame fit is not as important as barrel to slide fit, my slide to frame fit on the FS 9mm was quite sloppy compared to my other poly guns like the BG380 or even the Shield I rented. I stated everything wrong with my FS 9mm in a letter with the gun and I got an adjusted sight back.

 

[Moonman]

If you can shoot a FIST SIZED group on a B-27 Target at TWELVE FEET (12'), You're GOOD TO GO.

The Shield is a DEFENSIVE CARRY FIREARM, not a target pistol.

If you SHOOT TOO FAR in a CIVILIAN CAPACITY, you subject yourself to spending a GREAT DEAL OF TIME IN THE JOINT.

Long sentences in THE JOINT, and your FIREARMS ARE GONE FOREVER BABY.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

If you can shoot a FIST SIZED group on a B-27 Target at TWELVE FEET (12'), You're GOOD TO GO.

The Shield is a DEFENSIVE CARRY FIREARM, not a target pistol.

If you SHOOT TOO FAR in a CIVILIAN CAPACITY, you subject yourself to spending a GREAT DEAL OF TIME IN THE JOINT.

Long sentences in THE JOINT, and your FIREARMS ARE GONE FOREVER BABY.

I wasn't talking about the Shield, but the FS 9mm. The Shield I rented was able to produce a 2.5"-3" group at 15 yards and my FS 9mm was shooting a 10" group at the same distance. Smaller grip, smaller barrel and sight radius but I'm able to shoot smaller groups? I've always shot FS handguns more accurately than the micro compacts so if it's the opposite of that, it's the gun.

 

[WR Moore]

Please keep us posted. If it doesn't do better than it did before, I'd strongly suggest hunting down whoever runs customer service at S&W and taking the subject up with them.

I'm sure every job category has folks who don't exactly set the world afire with their apptitude and/or enthusiasm. Getting influence running downhill can help improve their performance.

 

[mlapaglia]

If its still bad call S&W and ask to speak to the Customer Service Manager. I sent mine in for the same thing and got it back with a new barrel and it now shoots great. Seems one of the keys it to tell them that its shooting vertical groupings. Mine really was doing that 2 inches wide and 7 inches high. A vertical group is supposed to be a sign of the barrel unlocking. If you do talk to the Customer service manager and he wants it sent back in get them to promise to expedite it so it goes to the top of the line and you get it back in less than a week.

Dont give up on it just because someone there didnt to their job. On the whole S&W has great service but there is always someone that isnt doing their job in any business.

Good luck.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

Well I did get the gun back. You know what they did, they adjusted the rear sight. Know how they adjusted the sight....to shoot to far to the right.

So I sent them a gun for accuracy issues,I wait almost a month, they return it with an adjusted rear sight that did not need adjusting and in fact made it worse. After the range I took it home and my laser bore sighter confirmed the improperly adjusted rear sight, so I got out the delrin tipped punch and hammer and put it back where it's suppose to be.

As far as the range session went, the groups were the same 10 inches until I put in the 20lb recoil spring I brought with me. Now the groups are down to 4" at 15 yards and that is still terrible. I shot my Shield at the same time using the same ammo and got a best grouping of 2" at 15 yards. First 5 shots with my Shield was 3",by the end it was down to 2", so I believe another range session will have me easily under 2" groupings or better.

As far as the FS 9mm goes, over 500rds though it, a modified trigger pull with an Apex sear and rounded/polished striker block making it have a far better trigger pull than most of my other handguns and it still gets 10" groups unless I put an aftermarket spring in it as a band-aid early unlocking fix?

Honestly, I'll wait until Apex comes out with the new locking blocks and barrels. At least they may actually fix something unlike the original manufacture.

 

[Lost Lake]

I think you should talk to a supervisor at S&W. Like others have pointed out, you probably received bad service which is unfortunate, but it happens. I'm sure they receive 1,000 guns a day and they adjust sights on them and 999 people think it's a miracle their gun is fixed.

Your gun is one of the few that have an actual problem, and you need to bump it up a notch. Call them again, talk to someone in charge, explain your situation is beyond the normal sight bump, and I think you'll get fast and excellent results.

Good luck!

 

[Tango 106]

I had the same problem with a M&P9 pistol manufactored in February 2012. I resolved the poor group size by hand grinding and 400 grit wet polishing the barrel crown. It was visibly uneven and had deep chatter marks all around the crown. The reason I even thought about checking the crown was because 2 years ago I bought a new Springfield XD 9mm. It shot 24 inch groups at 25 yards. I took it back to the LGS where I bought it and they test fired it 3 rounds in a 10 yard private indoor range. The guy that shot it is a competition shooter. He got a 7 inch 3 round grop at 10 yards. The pistol went back and was returned saying that they adjusted the front sight. The original factory "witness" marks, a dot marking the edge of the sights position on the slide, indicated that was a lie. It now shot 3 in groups at 25 yards. I went crazy trying to figure out what they did-I marked the barrel, slide and other components discretely to verify any claims that they "replaced" anything. Nothing was replaced or showed work, until after a month I thought about the barrel crown. Sure enough when I closely examined it, it was the same barrel, BUT they recut the crown!
These companies just are not going to be honest by choice.

 

[oldtexan]

10-8 Performance: S&W M&P Barrels, An Informal Test

Accuracy issues with some 9mm M&Ps, particularly at distances greater than 10 yds, seem to be common knowledge in some quarters. Interesting info and tentative results of test by Hilton Yam at link above may indicate S&W has recently changed barrel geometry and twist rate to fix said accuracy problem. If proven to be conclusive, this would be great news for everyone except those folks making match barrels for 9mm M&Ps.

 

[kodiakpb]

Interesting info and tentative results of test by Hilton Yam at link above may indicate S&W has recently changed barrel geometry and twist rate to fix said accuracy problem. If proven to be conclusive, this would be great news for everyone except those folks making match barrels for 9mm M&Ps.

When did S&W stop producing threaded barrels? Because mine is identical to the "2012" geometry below:

S&W also told me that there has not been any change to twist rates.

 

[kodiakpb]

Taptalk won't let me upload another image in original post. Here are my two barrels. Non threaded is from a MAR 12 gun.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

When did S&W stop producing threaded barrels? Because mine is identical to the "2012" geometry below:

S&W also told me that there has not been any change to twist rates.

See, this is why I can't trust what these so called techs/smith at S&W tell me. I asked one of them that seemed to know his stuff if the barrel profiles every changed and he said never. He then added that he could go out to the machine area and produce the same barrel they've always put in the M&Ps.

 

[KeeFus]

I have the 'new' production looking barrel in my fs 9 and it was not accurate.

 

[Fat B]

This whole thread is the perfect example of why I bought a PPQ instead of a M&P9.

And I really wanted to pretend all of the M&P9 accuracy issues were all the result in poor trigger skills or bad shooters.

 

[retarmyaviator]

...... all of the M&P9 accuracy issues were all the result in poor trigger skills or bad shooters.

A lot more truth in that than you think.

 

[Rodinal220]

I posted about my M&P FS 9mm accuracy issues in another thread. Just got my pistol back from the factory(two week turn around) and the enclosed letter stated it was inspected and test fired,in-spec no repair needed.

My gun was purchased in Spring 2012 and appears to have the new contour barrel,I will have to check the twist rate.It can do about 4" at 7 yards with 115/124gr fmj type ammo,have not tried 147gr yet.Past 7 yards it begins to really open up.
One time when I really tried to slow fire I got vertical stringing and the gun was shooting several inches low.This has been reported on other forums.It seems the gun has a mind of it own.

I expect no less than 3" at 25 yards from a service pistol with average ammo.My other 9mm platforms can do this or better.The M&P 9 cant even hit the paper at 25 yards.My Chinese #213 9mm will out shoot the S&W.

This is the second S&W "new" product I have sent back for repair.The first was a BG38 revo for misfires and poor accuracy/POI problems.S&W gave me a new gun and so far the reliability is good but still a bit ammo sensitive,likes 110/125 jacket not 158+P LSWC -HP and still a bit too high and left with 135gr+P GDs.
S&W seems to have a QC problem.