My Latest Edition of How Much Are You Willing to Pay?

[glowe]

A completed auction that I was following today had some pretty amazing auction prices realized on some very common and/or refinished and/or chopped S&Ws. First up was a 38 DA, 4th with a wavy re-nickel job including, flattened studs and plating everywhere. The first two images are of the 38 DA. It sold for $400 plus $92 premium.

Second was a cut barrel 38 Perfected with a large amount of pitting on the left side. It sold for $650 plus $150 premium.

My last auction item was something that interested me to follow the auction in the first place. It was a nice nickel Model of 1891 6" 38 S&W Single Shot barrel assembly. I really do not know what they are worth today, but it sold for $425 plus $100 premium. Seemed high and I was not the high bidder.

Anyway, I am keeping the name of this auction company since many items sold for big money in my opinion. The old adage that you get what you pay for may not work out so well for the buyers who bought these guns.

 

[opoefc]

Gary, There's another side to this that I'm seeing more as the online auction business is taking over the market place. That is that there is an increase in bidders who put in high bids, win the item, but then never pay for it. I recently consigned a collection of 250 items to a well known auction house who uses Proxibid for online bidding. I monitored the auction, noted that bids were entered on all items and declared "sold" by the auctioneer. When the dust had settled and to proceeds were counted, I discovered about 10% of the item "sold" were not paid for by the high bidder, so were returned to me. The auction house said this was happening more & more with online bidders and there was little they could do about it. I'm not sure where the blame lies. Some of it may be in poor photos & descriptions of the item by the auction house. ( You seldom see a description that does a good job of noting defect in an item, therefore an online bidder may feel justified in failing to pay ) Proxibid claims they blacklist a bidder who fails to pay, however when I asked for evidence of this they declined to answer, so I doubt them, as they do 100s of auctions a month with 1000s of items, so keeping track of an increasing number of "No buy" high bidders may be beyond their ability. Ed.

 

[DesmoEd]

I don't know what the first guy was thinking but the perfected is kinda cool and it does have some nice grips...

 

[rct269]

I have but one tale of woe to pass along concerning how much one soul was not willing to pay-------for a single shot barrel assembly---6", .32 caliber---blue----a COMPLETE (bolt on and shoot) assembly---in fairly good shape (AS NEW). I sent an email stating the price was $500. There was no response----suggesting had there been one, it would have been something along the lines of "Stick it in your ear!!".

Ralph Tremaine

 

[tlay]

I don't know what the first guy was thinking but the perfected is kinda cool and it does have some nice grips...

You are kidding right? This gun has been refinished and buffed out by someone other than S&W. At the most if it is 100% mechanically perfect it is worth $150 to $200 and that is stretching it!
I guess I know where I am selling my top breaks next!! If someone believes this gun is worth that price please contact me for some $1000 top breaks!!

 

[glowe]

. . . there is an increase in bidders who put in high bids, win the item, but then never pay for it . . Ed.

Well Ed, in a way that surprises me, but I guess that I should not. The way I look at online auctions is you take your chances when bidding long distance, but I have been fortunate to be happy with almost all my online purchaces. Maybe it is partly because of you guys teaching me so much about S&W, that I feel confident with my decisions to bid or not.

This auction and others where I have made purchases, automatically charge your credit card. How can a buyer who has seen the photos and read all the description find anything to complain about before they even receive the gun, or do they demand a refund after receiving the gun?

I did put some bids on the Perfected, and agree with DesmoEd that Snub-nosed was appealing to me as well, but I stopped at way less than half of the ultimate selling price.

 

[DesmoEd]

You are kidding right? This gun has been refinished and buffed out by someone other than S&W. At the most if it is 100% mechanically perfect it is worth $150 to $200 and that is stretching it!
I guess I know where I am selling my top breaks next!! If someone believes this gun is worth that price please contact me for some $1000 top breaks!!

The first gun is junk as in "I don't know what the first guy was thinking" and I would not give $50 for it.

The cut barrel perfected is interesting. It's wearing original finish and look at all the screw heads - they are perfect. Shame on the finish on one side, had to be improper storage as it looks pretty clean otherwise. The grips are a definite plus - not saying I'd pay $650 for it but I would not expect it to sell under $500...

 

[opoefc]

DesmoEd, "The grips are a definite plus" Why? They are a poor fitting after market non-factory pair. The original black hard rubber S&W stocks that came with the gun would have been a much better deal. General Patton had a term for this type of grips, which if i reported it here, I'd probably get a knock from the moderators! Ed.

 

[Tom K]

The first two images are of the 38 DA. It sold for $400 plus $92 premium.

Second was a cut barrel 38 Perfected with a large amount of pitting on the left side. It sold for $650 plus $150 premium.

My last auction item was something that interested me to follow the auction in the first place. It was a nice nickel Model of 1891 6" 38 S&W Single Shot barrel assembly. I really do not know what they are worth today, but it sold for $425 plus $100 premium. Seemed high and I was not the high bidder.

This is why I have pretty much stopped looking at Proxbid type auctions. The premium that most auction houses want is simply insane, with some going as high as 25%. What possible value do they provide that is worth 1/4 the cost of the gun?!

And, I am convinced that many bidders do not take the premium into account. The few times I've bid with a suitably reduced maximum to account for the premium (and shipping and handling, which can also be substantial!), the item has gone for more like full retail. Then the lucky bidder gets to add the premium and shipping charge to their total, which jacks the price up to unreasonable.

Or maybe there are just a lot of people with waaay more money than I have.

 

[glowe]

Tom, I look for the bargains and they are out there with so many gun auctions going on all year round. As I said, being a member of this Forum has taught me about all the nuances of many models of S&W, rare options, rare configurations, cheap tricks, improper identifications, refinishes, mis-matched parts, and I could go on and on.

The same day I was watching that auction, I was bidding on another and won a gun that I have been looking for a long time. There was a 32 Safety Hammerless, 2nd Model with a 6" barrel and it sold for $190. Now with the premium and shipping charges, it will cost me $264. Why did it sell so cheap? Terrible pictures that I think made it look much worse than it is, but also the pics show no wear other than the finish which is original, great stocks, clean recoil shield, and what I think is a rare barrel configuration for this pocket revolver. I might run across one every 2 years for sale and the last one I found sold for $700. I see five 2" Bicycle Guns for every 6" out there for sale. Supica states the 6" barrel is worth double that of standard barrel lengths. The description is very brief and the title is just wrong. Find it below along with a few pictures.

Smith & Wesson .32 Double Action 4th Model Revolver
Item Description:
Nickel finish. 60-70% with pitting and erosion overall. SN 137788

I don't see pitting and I don't see erosion, whatever that is. All I see is spotty nickel loss. Did I do good - don't know yet, but you guys will be the first to find out when I get it cleaned and polished.

 

[Salox]

Gary, There's another side to this that I'm seeing more as the online auction business is taking over the market place. That is that there is an increase in bidders who put in high bids, win the item, but then never pay for it. I recently consigned a collection of 250 items to a well known auction house who uses Proxibid for online bidding. I monitored the auction, noted that bids were entered on all items and declared "sold" by the auctioneer. When the dust had settled and to proceeds were counted, I discovered about 10% of the item "sold" were not paid for by the high bidder, so were returned to me. The auction house said this was happening more & more with online bidders and there was little they could do about it.

I wonder if this is why we have seen premiums go up recently with a major auction house?

Received a notification that RIA has severed business ties with Invaluable. We may see this as a large auction house trend to combat nonpaying online bidders. Ultimately, I see it playing out where the auction house will have to develop their own online bidding system to control this activity with specific user agreements to mirror current live, phone or absentee covenants.

 

[glowe]

Auction houses need to sell "as is" and clearly state if you bid you pay and some do have that policy. Proxibid offers their sellers the credit cards for payment and expect their bidders to have to pay for what they bought. Too bad that the auction houses do not have some recourse to force Proxibid to ban those deadbeats from using their site as well.

 

[ol777gunnerz]

auctions

After all the time , trouble & expense, why is there not a system set up to offer unpaid items to the next highest bidder? It worked well on another well known site, on sure if they still do it. As far as the single shot barrel, they are hard to come by, especially nickel & 6 inch, if someone is trying to build a set.

 

[deadin]

Too bad that the auction houses do not have some recourse to force Proxibid to ban those deadbeats from using their site as well.

Sounds like RIA found a way to do this with Invaluable.....

 

[Hoov]

Part of the deadbeat thing may be that the "winners" are refuting the charges on their credit card, if they see something they missed or they didn't add in the premium and had sticker shock. There is very little, if any, I send to auction houses any more. I am more inclined to call collectors I know. Everyone gets a better deal that way.

 

[H Richard]

For about the past year RIA calls me on the phone a few days in advance of any auction, and "reminds" me about the auction, and asks if I have been to the website to look over the catalog yet, and yesterday when the gal called and I mentioned I had didn't see very many S&W's in the auction and nothing what I had an interest in and she asks what I might be looking for. So, I did mention a .32 Regulation Police Target, as that is one that has eluded my (in any that I could afford), and she said she would put it in my file and if one shows up they will let me know. I may regret that.

 

[deadin]

For H Richard: (Not a S&W, but it is a H Richard......)


What would you pay for this one??

Check out the lockplate.... (Same on the barrel)

 

[JSR III]

I think that many times with these auctions prices get escalated because of the old "I'm not gonna let that guy outbid me for $25". Unfortunately this macho mentality sometimes results in that $25 bid up happening multiple times to where the price is no longer the driving factor, winning is.

Then you add the 18% to 26% premium and the price really gets crazy. You also may have folks that may be buying something without the real knowledge that is gained here and they end up overpaying for something because they didn't discount it for finish issues or non matching stocks etc. They see it in one of the books and see the prices listed and overvalue condition also adding to a possible higher than normal bid.

Another possible for the lower priced guns is the possibility of buying guns to part out. Many times the parts are worth more to a bunch of individuals than the complete gun is.

Take my current favorite, the .22/32 HFT as an example. Many are dying on the vine at any price over $400. Sell the gun as parts and it could be worth more with stocks going for $200+, rear sight $1-$200, barrel at $150, hammer $75, trigger $75, cylinder $1-$150 the parts end up worth more than the gun itself.

 

[rct269]

After all the time , trouble & expense, why is there not a system set up to offer unpaid items to the next highest bidder? It worked well on another well known site, on sure if they still do it. As far as the single shot barrel, they are hard to come by, especially nickel & 6 inch, if someone is trying to build a set.

There's no question that nice SS barrels are hard to come by, and this poorly refinished example continues the trend.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[glowe]

I tend to agree with you James, except that guns like the 38 DA can be bought for $150 (not $500) or less every day for parting out purposes. A 38 Perfected in low condition is going for under $350 (not $800) for the same purpose.

I think you are right in stating it is a matter of buyers not knowing what to look for and what they are seeing in front of them. An uneducated buyer can see a 100% 38 DA, looking almost new. Another buyer can see a cut barrel 38 Perfected as a rare configuration and without due diligence, will pay way too much. I will say it again, thanks to our very knowledgeable members I have yet to make a bad purchase - knock on wood.