My Lhasa Apso was Attacked by a Pit Bull

[cshoff]

GyMac:

I'm glad you and your dog did not come to any harm. I frequently walk our dogs - a small terrier mix and a Schnauzer in our neighborhood. I always carry a knife - a small, 3.5 inch bladed folder on my off-side, and a .38 Special J-frame in my strong-side pocket. Several years ago, a pair of large rottweilers that were off leash and running loose in the neighborhood came to attack my small dogs. I started hollering while unlimbering the pepper spray cannister that I have attached to the house key. Plenty of people watched, but no one helped, and I finally sprayed one of the dogs full in the face at about 5 ft. range.

It did not incapicitate the dog in the slightest, but it did surprise both him, and his buddy. Both dogs stopped suddenly, and the one I sprayed just stood there licking his chops, while his buddy came over and was busy sniffing his face where I had sprayed him. I'm thinking "Great, I just sprayed the equivalent of Louisiana Hot Sauce on these dogs, and they're probably thinking how me and my dogs are going to taste with some of this wonderful pepper spray on us."

While the rottweilers were busy with our little taste sample, I slowly started easing on down the street with my dogs. The owner came running up and yelling at me for spraying his "babies". I told him that if the spray hadn't worked, I was planning on drawing my knife and using that to defend myself. That got his attention and he withdrew with his "babies".

I still have pepper spray and carry it with me on our dog walks as it does provide an alternative. Do I trust it? Not really. I still carry a knife as that's just what I'm used to. I do realize if I have to deploy that in an animal attack, that the results are not going to be pretty, and that I am going to be trying to inflict fatal wounds on the attacking animal(s) in the brief time I will have available to me. I do make it a point to always carry a pistol with me on my walks as it does provide me with the best possible tool should deadly force be needed. In fact, I've started to carry a Model 38 so I have the option of a precise, single-action shot if need be. I also carry whistle and a cell phone to round off all of my dog walking gear. (Sigh), I can remember when taking a walk around the neighborhood with your dogs was a simple, easy, and carefree thing.

Best of luck,

Dave

Absolutely. I know several letter carriers that have sprayed attacking dogs with Mace or Pepper Spray with no results. The dogs just shook it off and kept on coming. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - just like it is with human beings. In the meantime, in just about every case, they inadvertently got at least a mild dose of the spray on themselves while trying to use it to fend off the dog.

I think if I lived in an area where a TASER wasn't legal, my first line of defense would be a stout walking stick. Second would be my firearm and/or my be my edged weapon, depending on the environment and the situation.

 

[Biginge]

Boyz,

As I said in an earlier post from cell phone last night. I had the unfortunate experience to see a pit rip the right kidney out of neighbors poodle before I could blink. Pit is no longer with us. Carry your gun everywhere you go. lf I knew where I was going to get in trouble I wouldn't go there.

Regards

Bill

 

[GyMac]

Thanks for all the responses, they've given me lots to think about. One thing we will do for sure is pick our dog up if we think she might be in danger. We did that after the attack even though the dog that time was a beagle! (We were gunshy).
As far as the dog's intentions go, I can't be absolutely sure what he was going to do, that's why I waited to the last second. At that point, though, it did appear he was going for my dog. He even continued after her after I jumped on him. Plus, the owner realized what had happened and apologized profusely. As for my actions, it may have been unwise to jump on the dog, but I felt I had no alternative and I would still rather end up hurt than let my dog, who is like a child to me, get hurt while I stood by. Samantha, for her part, is fine and sitting on my lap as I type this.

 

[Packard]

Of all the dogs I've ever owned my Doberman was the best at interacting with other dogs. (He was 29" at the shoulders and 135 pounds of hard muscle. He could jump over a 10 foot fence--and did.)

If a dog came over to him and he wanted to sniff, my Dobie would say, "Hey! I like sniffing."

If a dog came over to him and he wanted to play, my Dobie would say, "Hey! I like playing."

If a dog came over to him and wanted to fight, my Dobie would say, "Hey! I like fighting."

Of the three, he seemed to enjoy the fighting the most--but he was agreeable with all sorts of interactions. Luckily he was a fantastic fighter so I never had to worry about him getting hurt.

My other dogs liked fighting much less though my Standard Schauzer (45 pounds) took down a Great Dane (broke his rear leg).

But even if you let your dog out in your own back yard nowadays they are not completely safe. There are bands of coyotes in our area that snack on small dogs and are willing (as a group) to take on larger dogs. So it is no longer safe to leave your dog out in your own backyard anymore.

The keychain pepper sprays only shoot about 6 feet. The larger 2 ounce containers will shoot about 12 feet and are much preferred. But a pitbull on a tear after another dog is like a rapist with PCP in his system. Doesn't feel a thing. For any other breed of dog the pepper spray should work fine.

 

[everReady Rob]

Reading the other day that some cities are having problems with gangs/punks stealing dogs out of yards and selling to labs that do research or to anyone with a buck. I hope these punks get some bad 'stuff' and end up on the research table themselves.

 

[Packard]

Reading the other day that some cities are having problems with gangs/punks stealing dogs out of yards and selling to labs that do research or to anyone with a buck. I hope these punks get some bad 'stuff' and end up on the research table themselves.

About 20 years ago on Long Island there were a rash of thefts of Rottweillers, German Shepherds and Dobermans.

Amateurs don't steal those types of dogs; professionals do. I am quite certain that someone with a canine protection company was snatching these dogs and using them to protect factories, and car dealerships.

The only dog I ever met that was completely immune to that sort of thing was my Fila Brasilero. He would attack anyone he could reach and try to kill anyone he did reach. (Other than that trait, he was a wonderful pet--and this is not an anomoly--all of them are like that.) He would not seek out victims; he only attacked anyone who came within 6 feet of us. If you were outside that perimeter he ignored you. They call this "aversion" as opposed to "aggression".

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fila_Brasileiro

 

[BlueDotBill]

Greetings all, I have seen a number of fights between dogs at the local dog park and several good cracks on the head and throat of a pit bull, administered by me, had no effect on the pit releasing his latest victim. One method to break up a fight is to pick up the offending dog by the haunches and quickly step backwards (they can't dig in with their hind legs). It doesn't always work but it's worth a try. Does anyone here have any experience with stun guns or tasers on a dog and is it legal? Seems to me that a good blast of electricity just may jolt the dog into letting his grip go on the cocker spaniel. Pepper spray will not work either; the aggressive dog is so utterly single-minded that it will have little if any effect on him and you'll wind up blinding the victim dog as well in the melee. So, what about the stun gun or taser and which one would be best to protect our furry friends from the moron dogs. BTW, I have three basset hounds and a rottie, all perfectly socialized and I've often thought what would I do if one of my bassets were attacked. The rottie can take care of herself. I'm not too fond of experiencing the legal nightmare of shooting someone's dog at the dog park where there are many people and other good dogs.
P.S. Pit bulls are some of the nicest dogs out there it's just that they get a bad rap and if a goof owns a golden retriever that golden will certainly be a goof as well.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

One method to break up a fight is to pick up the offending dog by the haunches and quickly step backwards (they can't dig in with their hind legs).

It's interesting you mentioned the above since it's something I had been thinking about while reading this thread.

Back in the 70's I used to run with a guy who had been a dog handler in Vietnam, who liked it so much that he did more than one tour just to continue that type of working relationship with dogs.

We spent many an hour talkin' dogs and one of the things he told me was that if I was ever attacked by a dog to, if possible, pick it up off of the ground. He said that once the dog is out of it's "element / working zone" it tends to get disoriented.

He clarified this by saying a "regular dog" tends to get disoriented, a trained attack dog is a whole different ball game. He said that even if a "well trained" attack dog is picked up they will usually do their job and continue the fight.

When he told me this I asked him if it was a good idea to possibly end up with a dog's teeth near your throat or face and he said that it's one of those things that you have to play by ear and weight what might happen if you left the dog on the ground, as opposed to picking it up.

I've never tested what he told me and often wondered how well it would work.

The method mentioned in the quote would tend to keep the dog's face out of yours. I say, tend to, because animals are quick and you just never know.......

 

[chp]

I pepper sprayed an aggressive Rottie mix with Fox spray. The dog immediately went down rubbing its face with its paws. I got the heck out of there.

I always have it with me (and a knife and a pistol) when I take my dog to the dog park.

Not saying pepper spray works all the time, but it worked really well the one time I used it.

 

[Doug M.]

The only dog I ever met that was completely immune to that sort of thing was my Fila Brasilero. He would attack anyone he could reach and try to kill anyone he did reach. (Other than that trait, he was a wonderful pet--and this is not an anomoly--all of them are like that.) He would not seek out victims; he only attacked anyone who came within 6 feet of us. If you were outside that perimeter he ignored you. They call this "aversion" as opposed to "aggression".

See: Fila Brasileiro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*
HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah. One of our dogs is RottXFila as far as we can tell. The breed was unknown to Rescue, and they thought he was a RottXDane (not unreasonable). It took us a while to figure it out. He is affectionate and gentle with us to an extent that is amazing and violent toward others to an extent that is equally amazing. He is generally playful with other dog as he was raised in a pack in the rescue, and seems to really love a Clydesdale mare about .5 mile from our house.
I would hate like hell to have to hurt someone's dogs, and I am really careful if I think there is an issue; I want to go another way. I have seen and addressed dog fights, and I am not going to do it without a gun.

 

[DonDee]

Gentleman,

I apologize if anyone mentioned this earlier-I didn't read every post.

I have had 5 Pits and know a little bit about them. A sure enough well-bred pit with an established bloodline will be one of the sweetest dogs to humans you'll ever encounter. That same animal will do anything in it's power to annihilate and decimate any other animal, especially another dog. That's just how it is, period.

Why? Easy, it's selective breeding. A true pit bull comes directly from stock that is tempered in the ring. Like it or not, that's the fact. Any dog that shows any hesitation at all in fighting another dog to the death dies anyway as soon as the fight is over. Similarly, any dog that shows even the slightest hint of aggression toward his handler or any other human goes on a one way trip out back behind the ring shack. The surviving dogs are known to be "game bred".

Now-if you encounter a pit that was bred in someone's backyard for profit, or perhaps a mix-wel, you're on your own. The results could be anything.

This is why so many people have heard that pits are sweet to humans. Good ones are, but God help the regular dog that crosses their path.

 

[David Sinko]

So far I have shot and killed one pit bull that started chewing on me with no provocation. I was gonna shoot a second one but fortunately for him I couldn't get the gun out of the Level III holster fast enough after he ran into my legs. He had just torn apart a cat and came at me with his face covered with blood. I also had a young female Rottweiler charge me in a park. She really wanted a piece of me but stopped abruptly when I showed no fear and didn't retreat an inch. I did get the gun out in time for this one and was waiting until she was almost on top of me and there was no chance of putting a stray bullet into the neighborhood where all the millionaires live.

You were unarmed and you jumped on a stranger's pit bull? That's crazy. Aggressive dogs that are off a leash and charge you are to be shot on sight. People have no idea how dangerous these dogs can be until it's too late. I'll not wait around again to find out if a dog that drew my blood is up to date on its rabies shots.

Ah, yes... the beloved Fila Brasileiro. A friend of mine once had one of these and it absolutely scared the hell out of me. He wanted the most fearsome and dangerous dog breed he could find, did all the research, and certainly got his money's worth. It's the single most intimidating dog I have ever seen.

Dave Sinko

 

[Kanewpadle]

First of all, batons are not legal in all areas (not legal at all in New York).

Second of all, the pit bull would not even notice the baton.

A number of years ago I was sitting outside at Barnes and Noble with my (then) 10 year old German Shepherd Dog. He was fit, but at 10 years old--a pretty old dog.

A Pit Bull came charging up at us. My dog thought the dog was going to attack me and he got in between the pit bull and me. I had an open stainless steel mug filled with piping hot black coffee. I splashed the scalding coffee in the face of the pit bull. No reaction.

I then clocked the pit bull over the head repeatedly with the stainless steel mug. The force of the impacts would have probably fractured the skull of any human. It stove in the stainless steel mug to the point that the cap could no longer fit the top of the mug.

I don't think a baton would have any more effect than the 4 or 5 impacts that the mug made.

Fortunately the owner chased down his dog before any real damage was done. But Pit Bulls don't feel anything when they are on the attack. The only thing that would work would be a .357 pressed against the body as it was fired. Remembering that the bullet will almost certainly pass through the pit bull and could injure your own dog afterwards.

As an aside, my dog trainer demonstrated (out of necessity) that it is very easy to knock out a dog.

We were training my German Shepherd in town when a Great Dane charged out of one of the store fronts. Otis (the dog trainer) positioned himself between us (my dog and me) and the attacking Great Dane. He presented his left forearm to the dog (dogs attack the closest appendage), and just before the dog clamped on his arm he brought his right forearm up under the chin of the dog. The dog collapsed like a sack of potatoes.

Otis said, "Dogs knock out real easy. A shot under the chin will KO them every time."

I don't care if they are legal or not around here. And your hollow stainless steel mug can't even come close to the force exerted by a steel baton. And yes, they do work. I've done it.

Regardless, it's still something other than my gun to keep between the dog and me instead of using my arm.

 

[Hook686]

Some folks do what they want regardless of the laws.

If this is true then the dog is certainly not a legitimate service dog/therapy dog. To be certified the dog MUST be nonagressive. I'd like to know the therapist's name and location that recommended a Therapy dog that would be agressive under any circumstances.

 

[StatesRightist]

Bear spray level OCP will stop dogs, it's more effective on a charging grizzly than a .44. The stuff for people you buy, no, it won't stop every person either. Bear spray for the dog, you gut, much less shoot a dog that's not on you and depending on the area of the country you are in, it's on. The advice is free, take it or leave it it's JMO.

 

[Packard]

Bear spray level OCP will stop dogs, it's more effective on a charging grizzly than a .44. The stuff for people you buy, no, it won't stop every person either. Bear spray for the dog, you gut, much less shoot a dog that's not on you and depending on the area of the country you are in, it's on. The advice is free, take it or leave it it's JMO.

This is not my understanding of bear spray. Bear's nasal membranes are more sensitive than humans (dogs too). My understanding is that bear spray is less potent than human spray but it's range is far greater. I undertand that it will spray 20+ feet, giving it time to respond before the bear is upon you.

Do you have any reference that indicates that it is stronger?

 

[cmort666]

I don't care if they are legal or not around here. And your hollow stainless steel mug can't even come close to the force exerted by a steel baton. And yes, they do work. I've done it.

I DO care if they're legal.

I haven't got the SLIGHTEST intention of losing my license to LEGALLY carry a handgun (and maybe some portion of my life at liberty) in order to ILLEGALLY carry something of debatable effectiveness to avoid killing a dangerous animal attacking me.

My right to travel public thoroughfares and be in public places, unmolested, trumps the life of ANY unrestrained animal.

As I said, I like dogs. I like being alive with all of my appendages intact, not being in jail, and being able to work and support myself a LOT more.

 

[cshoff]

This is not my understanding of bear spray. Bear's nasal membranes are more sensitive than humans (dogs too). My understanding is that bear spray is less potent than human spray but it's range is far greater. I undertand that it will spray 20+ feet, giving it time to respond before the bear is upon you.

Do you have any reference that indicates that it is stronger?

My understanding was that they used essentially the same type of formulations, but the bear spray had to be packaged in a container that held a minimum of 8 ounces, and had to have a minimum range of 25 feet. I've also heard that the nozzles on the bear spray containers allow the spray to be dispersed in a larger particle size which enhances it's ability to have a longer effective range for bears and other large animals with big nostrils.

As far as "heat" is concerned, if you look at UDAP's bear spray as an example, they rate it at 3.3 million scoville heat units, which is comparable, or even "hotter", than a lot of the sprays on the market designed for use on humans, but it's nowhere near as "hot" as some of the sprays LEA's are using now.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I DO care if they're legal.

I haven't got the SLIGHTEST intention of losing my license to LEGALLY carry a handgun (and maybe some portion of my life at liberty) in order to ILLEGALLY carry something of debatable effectiveness to avoid killing a dangerous animal attacking me.

My right to travel public thoroughfares and be in public places, unmolested, trumps the life of ANY unrestrained animal.

As I said, I like dogs. I like being alive with all of my appendages intact, not being in jail, and being able to work and support myself a LOT more.

That's fine and dandy. You guys need to worry about yourselves. I would rather explain to an officer why I used a baton than explain why I shot the dog. But that doesn't mean I would hesitate to shoot if I had to.

But then again, I don't have a problem with cops. I know many locally and routinely work with them.

 

[StatesRightist]

My understanding was that they used essentially the same type of formulations, but the bear spray had to be packaged in a container that held a minimum of 8 ounces, and had to have a minimum range of 25 feet. I've also heard that the nozzles on the bear spray containers allow the spray to be dispersed in a larger particle size which enhances it's ability to have a longer effective range for bears and other large animals with big nostrils.

As far as "heat" is concerned, if you look at UDAP's bear spray as an example, they rate it at 3.3 million scoville heat units, which is comparable, or even "hotter", than a lot of the sprays on the market designed for use on humans, but it's nowhere near as "hot" as some of the sprays LEA's are using now.

You hit the nail on the head, dispersion is the key.

Aggressive Pitbull Dog Sprayed with UDAP Pepper Power Developed By A Grizzly Bear Attack Survivor - YouTube

UDAP Pepper Power Bear Spray testimonials