My Lhasa Apso was Attacked by a Pit Bull

[cshoff]

In Missouri, dogs are really not treated any differently than people as far as the justified use of force is concerned. When a human being reasonably believes that he/she, or another person, is in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death, then he/she may justifiably use physical and/or deadly force to prevent such injury or death. And it doesn't matter if that threat comes from man or beast, the justification is the same.

That said, the idea of discharging a firearm in an urban environment is always risky business, which is why I think a TASER is a good first line of defense in areas where dog attacks are likely. Unlike pepper spray, which some dogs will ignore and which will almost always affect you and your dog, they don't ignore the Neuro Muscular Incapacitation that results from being hit with the TASER probes, not to mention that all of the TASER devices can be used in a "drive stun" mode if you find yourself on the ground with the dog on top of you or if it has a hold on your arm/leg/etc.

IMO, any dog over about 35 pounds can do some serious damage if he/she gets a hold of you. It is nearly impossible to get a determined dog to release it's grip once it bites down, and the bigger and stronger they are, the harder it is. As a last resort, I wouldn't hesitate to put a dog down that was attacking my much smaller dog, especially if I was attached to the situation via a leash.

 

[Hook686]

when he got a couple of feet from us, I jumped on him. Still, he managed to squirm away and get at my dog.

Had the dog bit you rather than squirm away, would you then have been legally justified in shooting the dog ?

 

[GyMac]

I think it's because the pit can and will deliver much more damage in a shorter amount of time. I think that's the biggest fear that people have of them. Including me.

Me, too. This dog came over and I had only a split second to determine whether he was being aggressive or just curious. I just had time to jump on him and luckily it didn't go much further after that. I'm just thankful he didn't latch on to my dog. If I had had my gun with me, can you imagine how difficult it would have been to have gotten off a shot, especially since I was down there on the ground with them?
You never know when something bad can happen. Even though I don't believe a gun would have helped in this situation, it's another reason why you should carry one.

 

[GyMac]

Had the dog bit you rather than squirm away, would you then have been legally justified in shooting the dog ?

I doubt it, if he was no longer a threat. After the dog had been recovered by its owner, and my dog was in the background squealing (probably from fright), I did consider going after the dog. At that point I just wanted to kill him.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Me, too. This dog came over and I had only a split second to determine whether he was being aggressive or just curious. I just had time to jump on him and luckily it didn't go much further after that. I'm just thankful he didn't latch on to my dog. If I had had my gun with me, can you imagine how difficult it would have been to have gotten off a shot, especially since I was down there on the ground with them?
You never know when something bad can happen. Even though I don't believe a gun would have helped in this situation, it's another reason why you should carry one.

That's precisely why I carry a baton. Collapsed it fits in my back pocket. It's effective and if it doesn't deter the dog, I can keep it between him and me while I draw my gun.

If the dog grabs a pant leg, or my dog, the last thing I want to do is shoot in that general direction. So a steel baton upside the head is a nice option.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I doubt it, if he was no longer a threat. After the dog had been recovered by its owner, and my dog was in the background squealing (probably from fright), I did consider going after the dog. At that point I just wanted to kill him.

I know what you mean. I have a five pound chuhuahua. I've had to pick her up a few times because of aggressive dogs.

Of course after they leave she gives them a tough send off bark.

 

[cshoff]

I know what you mean. I have a five pound chuhuahua. I've had to pick her up a few times because of aggressive dogs.

Of course after they leave she gives them a tough send off bark.

I've got a 45lb. Border Collie mix and a 12 pound Min-Pin/Boston Terrier mix. The BC mix is fast enough that she can outrun just about anything, and the little guy thinks he's 10 feet tall and bullet proof at times.

Still, those dogs are like our kids. I could never stand by while either of them were hurt.

 

[BCDWYO]

I'm a veterinarian and I work with a lot of Pit Bulls. They are actually one of my favorite breeds to treat. As a rule they are great with people (adults) and very sweet and loving. As a rule they also TEND to be aggressive and untrustworthy with other animals and with small children. I love working on them but I would NEVER want the responsibility and liability of owning one! Over the years I've treated countless small dogs and cats that were VERY seriously injured or killed by attacks from larger dogs (Pit Bulls and coyotes seem to head the list of frequency). Studies in vet journals have actually shown that there is a higher incidence of serious internal organ and soft tissue trauma with dog bite wounds than from gunshot wounds or from hit by car accidents in pets. My observations would support this...the relatively small puncture wounds you see with a dog bite often are only the tip of the iceberg when I do surgery and see the amount of shredding of muscles and organs under the surface. This makes sense when you consider how a dog will grind and shake their smaller "victims". As for the best defense against a determined dog attack, I'm not an expert in that area, but I have seen a number of dogs brought in on emergency that had been pretty well incapacitated by pepper spray so I think it could work. I think a big stick or baton is a great idea as a back-up option. I don't think I'd personally want to get in a knife fight with an determined attacking dog (sword maybe!)...much too close quarters with a knife for me. One thing I do know it that GyMac is VERY lucky to have not been injured when he jumped on the charging Pit Bull. Just like any other time we discharge a firearm, the justification would have to be pretty clear if you shoot a dog in an urban area.

 

[vipermd]

GyMac: You jumped on a dog that had done nothing? Dogs are curious, as you stated, BUT this was a pit bull. You said your dog was not bit, scared, yes but not injured. You are fortunate that you did not "jump" on my 125 lb Rott. I am sure he would have responded to being to being ATTACKED by YOU, it would not have been pretty. You would have been the one needing a hospital. As for your dog it would have been one quick bite. That being said my Rott's are ALWAYS on a lease IN PUBLIC, or on walks on our property that is not fenced in. I believe it is my responsibility to control my dog the same as my weapons. Had one of my dogs broke the leash and attacked your dog, I would have put him down right there! I am always armed. For fear that you might do something stupid like jump on him and I would want to protect you. I have been bit by Rotts, Shepherds, Pits, I can show you the scars, all but one case was my fault. A firearm should be mandatory, though prob useless to stop the initial attack, Pepper spray is effective,easier to use, a collapsible baton is illegal in many area's, be careful to not use the tip of an ASP as it will cause a fractured skull/death, taser/stun gun are illegal in many states, be aware. As for a knife, I would not want to get that close, I have had both hands pushing the dogs head away and did not have a third hand. The stick is always a good idea for 2 or 4 legged attackers. I wish you and your pet safety, but think about pepper/stick to give you a safer distance to deter attack. Are there "bad" dogs- sure that's why we have prison overcrowding. Be Safe,

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Thank goodness your dog didn't suffer any physical injuries!

When I used to walk our dogs in a public setting I always carried and old canoe paddle that had the blade cut off, basically a cane but to me it was always a "dog stick." I had to use it on more than one occasion but usually one whack was enough to do the trick. Many times just raising it worked.

For those who decide a knife is a good option always remember to stab with the blade angled to slip between the ribs if you want to be really effective.

If the blade is wide enough and you use it a certain way the ribs can prevent it from penetrating down to vital areas. The same applies to people......

 

[TACC1]

I don't blame you for venting. That Lhasa Apso depends on owners
for everything in life. What would that make you if you didn't protect
her when she needed it most? You did good, and enshrined yourself in the eyes of your dog. TACC1

 

[dinooch]

I don't blame you for venting. That Lhasa Apso depends on owners
for everything in life. What would that make you if you didn't protect
her when she needed it most? You did good, and enshrined yourself in the eyes of your dog. TACC1

I have a Lhasa Apso and she is the sweetest dog. She loves her walks and I agree they depend on their owners. Lhasas also feel a need to protect their owners too although let's be real what can they really do other than sound the alarm which is their primary job. That was what they did in the temples in Tibet. I have had a few rough walks concerning other dogs but have been fortunate not to have been actually attacked. I will say that armed or unarmed I would pick her up and take the hit myself. I will also say that I will usually carry a Beretta 21a with Stingers in it for those night time walks. I say why take a chance. The very last resort is to shoot in a suburban neighborhood setting. It all depends on how bad I get bitten. I would not shoot first. You'd better have a real good reason to discharge that weapon or you're in a world of trouble. "I thought he was going to bite" won't cut it.

 

[cmort666]

In Ohio, it's unlawful to shoot a dog to protect another dog. In the few instances where I've heard of it happening, the owner of the dog being attacked was not prosecuted. The general attitude here is, regardless of the law, people (including the authorities) don't like aggressive dogs running around attacking people OR other dogs in the control of their owners.

 

[cmort666]

The very last resort is to shoot in a suburban neighborhood setting. It all depends on how bad I get bitten.

If I get bitten AT ALL, or even have a reasonable fear that I WILL get bitten, the dog gets shot.

Dog owners have a legal DUTY to control their animals. I don't have ANY duty to get bitten AT ALL.

I like dogs... just not enough to get bitten through no action of my own. I'm not going to get maimed or lose my ability to work (and live indoors) to protect the dangerous animal of a negligent owner.

 

[DeadWhiteGoose]

I have a 3 year old boxer named Bruce who looks tough but can't hurt a fly. He travels with me on the road and recently while he was getting his walk, we were charged by a German Shepard mix. Both dogs were about the same size (70lbs or more) and the Shepard came out aggressive right away. Instead of waiting for a fight to ensue, I scooped Bruce up under one arm. Since my dog was no longer on the ground it confused the Shepard pretty badly, now it's just me and him. I pointed right at him with my other arm and spun with him while he circled me and Bruce. Sternly I kept saying to "Get Back". He finally listened and took off. I always carry a knife and if that dog had gone for it, it would've been my only option. Now I am 6'3 and 210lbs but I was just surprised how the situation turned out. I understand not everyone can hold a 70lb dog under their arm, but a small dog might get just as lucky as Bruce. I walk my dog everywhere and this time happened to be in a Wal-Mart parking lot. I don't tend to walk around areas like that with sticks or tazers and a firearm discharge would be all bad. It just shows that dog attacks can happen anywhere and I don't think I want to carry a stick or baton 24/7. Honestly, I'd rather get hurt then let my dog get hurt. I've got health insurance . As for Pits, I've met plenty of awesome pit bulls. I've also met multiple puppies that have bit my lip and gone for my neck or my dogs neck fresh out of the litter. I applaud any responsible dog owner but stereotypes and bad raps are only around because of repeat events. I love animals but I wouldn't own an alligator.

 

[jbull380]

Dog no dog, poodle or pit, you should still be carrying a firearm. When I hear or read "I usually carry a gun, but didn't have it with me," I ask what if it wasn't some silly dog and was some maggot with the intentions maggots have? Carry that thing. Glad you and your dog are ok.

 

[maddog909]

I understand that in many cities you can't carry in public parks, athletic fields and such. In those cases wouldn't pepper spray or something similar work well against a canine. I was attacked by a not very friendly german shepard long ago and the animal would not let go. My arm swelled up for a week. Fortunately someone who knew the dog got him off of me.

 

[Doug M.]

One of the reasons I carry a revolver in my fanny pack is for contact shots on an attacking dog. I love pitties, but they can be poor with other dogs, in which case you have a real poop sandwich. There is a guy at my gym whose therapy dog is a pit - she is the greatest thing and well received there, but he admits that she can be a real problem with other dogs and he has to be careful.

We had a pit, and he and one of our other dogs had some dominance contests that eventually resulted in them both dying. It was traumatic to an extent I can't describe.

 

[Packard]

That's precisely why I carry a baton...

First of all, batons are not legal in all areas (not legal at all in New York).

Second of all, the pit bull would not even notice the baton.

A number of years ago I was sitting outside at Barnes and Noble with my (then) 10 year old German Shepherd Dog. He was fit, but at 10 years old--a pretty old dog.

A Pit Bull came charging up at us. My dog thought the dog was going to attack me and he got in between the pit bull and me. I had an open stainless steel mug filled with piping hot black coffee. I splashed the scalding coffee in the face of the pit bull. No reaction.

I then clocked the pit bull over the head repeatedly with the stainless steel mug. The force of the impacts would have probably fractured the skull of any human. It stove in the stainless steel mug to the point that the cap could no longer fit the top of the mug.

I don't think a baton would have any more effect than the 4 or 5 impacts that the mug made.

Fortunately the owner chased down his dog before any real damage was done. But Pit Bulls don't feel anything when they are on the attack. The only thing that would work would be a .357 pressed against the body as it was fired. Remembering that the bullet will almost certainly pass through the pit bull and could injure your own dog afterwards.

As an aside, my dog trainer demonstrated (out of necessity) that it is very easy to knock out a dog.

We were training my German Shepherd in town when a Great Dane charged out of one of the store fronts. Otis (the dog trainer) positioned himself between us (my dog and me) and the attacking Great Dane. He presented his left forearm to the dog (dogs attack the closest appendage), and just before the dog clamped on his arm he brought his right forearm up under the chin of the dog. The dog collapsed like a sack of potatoes.

Otis said, "Dogs knock out real easy. A shot under the chin will KO them every time."

 

[Double-O-Dave]

GyMac:

I'm glad you and your dog did not come to any harm. I frequently walk our dogs - a small terrier mix and a Schnauzer in our neighborhood. I always carry a knife - a small, 3.5 inch bladed folder on my off-side, and a .38 Special J-frame in my strong-side pocket. Several years ago, a pair of large rottweilers that were off leash and running loose in the neighborhood came to attack my small dogs. I started hollering while unlimbering the pepper spray cannister that I have attached to the house key. Plenty of people watched, but no one helped, and I finally sprayed one of the dogs full in the face at about 5 ft. range.

It did not incapicitate the dog in the slightest, but it did surprise both him, and his buddy. Both dogs stopped suddenly, and the one I sprayed just stood there licking his chops, while his buddy came over and was busy sniffing his face where I had sprayed him. I'm thinking "Great, I just sprayed the equivalent of Louisiana Hot Sauce on these dogs, and they're probably thinking how me and my dogs are going to taste with some of this wonderful pepper spray on us."

While the rottweilers were busy with our little taste sample, I slowly started easing on down the street with my dogs. The owner came running up and yelling at me for spraying his "babies". I told him that if the spray hadn't worked, I was planning on drawing my knife and using that to defend myself. That got his attention and he withdrew with his "babies".

I still have pepper spray and carry it with me on our dog walks as it does provide an alternative. Do I trust it? Not really. I still carry a knife as that's just what I'm used to. I do realize if I have to deploy that in an animal attack, that the results are not going to be pretty, and that I am going to be trying to inflict fatal wounds on the attacking animal(s) in the brief time I will have available to me. I do make it a point to always carry a pistol with me on my walks as it does provide me with the best possible tool should deadly force be needed. In fact, I've started to carry a Model 38 so I have the option of a precise, single-action shot if need be. I also carry whistle and a cell phone to round off all of my dog walking gear. (Sigh), I can remember when taking a walk around the neighborhood with your dogs was a simple, easy, and carefree thing.

Best of luck,

Dave