My name is Red, and I Own an IL Revolver...

[RedBerens]

Since 2003, I've had a problem.

I've been reading the works of Elmer Keith since I was a kid in high school, and have always wanted a 4" Target Model of 1950. Unfortunately, you all know how hard this gun is to find.

But then, in 2003, S&W answered my prayers, and introduced the model 29-8 Mountain Gun. Finally, I had what I felt was the closest thing to the original. At first I didn't even notice the IL, let alone care about it. But then I discovered this forum, and was soon 'educated' and embarrassed to own this insult of a gun.

Never mind the fact that it is the most accurate revolver I own - capable of 2" groups at 50 yards - even more accurate than some of my .22lr rifles. Never mind that the deep black finish looks better than the finish on my Target Model of 1983 .44 Special, or that the sideplate and yoke seams are almost invisible. No, none of that mattered, so I found an obviously superior replacement; a model 29-3.

Never mind the burrs on the sideplate seams, or the barrel that hadn't been screwed in correctly, causing it to cant over to one side, or even the gap in the frame/yoke seam. The poor groups - often double what the IL gun could do, had to be acceptable - the gun didn't have MIM or the IL - right? The quality of manufacturing, separated by the 20 years these two guns were made, was so obvious.

Well, I'm almost 40 now, and I've decided to start making some decisions about quality all by myself. The 29-3 has been gotten rid of. I now own what I feel is the finest S&W revolver I've ever bought. I'm not going to apologize, and I really don't care if you hate it.

I can't be alone on this. I know there are IL gun owners like myself who have been bullied into feeling embarrassed about owning them. I think these new classics are the finest guns built since the 1950's. I hope this new revolver section will allow some of you to start posting about your new model 27, or share your excitement over the new model 58.

So, my name is Red, and I own an IL revolver…

 

[RedBerens]

Since 2003, I've had a problem.

I've been reading the works of Elmer Keith since I was a kid in high school, and have always wanted a 4" Target Model of 1950. Unfortunately, you all know how hard this gun is to find.

But then, in 2003, S&W answered my prayers, and introduced the model 29-8 Mountain Gun. Finally, I had what I felt was the closest thing to the original. At first I didn't even notice the IL, let alone care about it. But then I discovered this forum, and was soon 'educated' and embarrassed to own this insult of a gun.

Never mind the fact that it is the most accurate revolver I own - capable of 2" groups at 50 yards - even more accurate than some of my .22lr rifles. Never mind that the deep black finish looks better than the finish on my Target Model of 1983 .44 Special, or that the sideplate and yoke seams are almost invisible. No, none of that mattered, so I found an obviously superior replacement; a model 29-3.

Never mind the burrs on the sideplate seams, or the barrel that hadn't been screwed in correctly, causing it to cant over to one side, or even the gap in the frame/yoke seam. The poor groups - often double what the IL gun could do, had to be acceptable - the gun didn't have MIM or the IL - right? The quality of manufacturing, separated by the 20 years these two guns were made, was so obvious.

Well, I'm almost 40 now, and I've decided to start making some decisions about quality all by myself. The 29-3 has been gotten rid of. I now own what I feel is the finest S&W revolver I've ever bought. I'm not going to apologize, and I really don't care if you hate it.

I can't be alone on this. I know there are IL gun owners like myself who have been bullied into feeling embarrassed about owning them. I think these new classics are the finest guns built since the 1950's. I hope this new revolver section will allow some of you to start posting about your new model 27, or share your excitement over the new model 58.

So, my name is Red, and I own an IL revolver…

 

[girvin02]

Your gun would be just as accurate without the IL. All of the positive attributes that you listed have nothing to do with the IL.

Personally, I would love an 8-shot, short barreled model 27, but will not be buying one of the new "classics", because of the IL. Am I a bad person for stating that in a public forum?

I'm definately not trying to make you feel "bullied into feeling embarrassed about owning" your gun.

Nice 29-8, btw, I especially like those stocks.

 

[S&W-Keeper]

Good post, I think most of us are closet IL owners. I think that I have 6 myself, imagine that.I think that it is like owning Glocks,I have 3 and .380's,I have two, most of us have them and don't admit it.

 

[Wayne M]

Good post, Red. Great revolver!

 

[BuzzardBilly]

Comming out of the closet:
Even I have one (Only).
Could not pass up one of the Texas "Whitetail" limited edition 460s.

 

[Revolver King]

Hey red welcome to the forum, I own several IL revolvers and I like them a lot.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by girvin02:
Your gun would be just as accurate without the IL. All of the positive attributes that you listed have nothing to do with the IL.

That is true.

But the point I think Red is making is that most of the lock haters are also those who run their mouth about the "poor" quality of present day S&W revolvers even while on the same breath they admit they have not owned one.

IMO, people like that cannot be given ANY credibility.

My 65-8, with its two-piece barrel, MIM parts, and lock is insanely accurate and has accumulated over 4800 trouble fre rounds in the less than 2 years I've owned it.

 

[girvin02]

I understand. I can even see how complaining about a feature on a current model is indirectly knocking anyone who has chosen to own that model. I guess that there is no easy way about it. For myself, if I complain about the IL, it is out of frustration, as I REALLY want that 8-shot 27 (sans lock).

I think that, in the future, I will keep my opinions of the IL to myself, as it really is not my intention to offend anyone that owns IL-equipped guns.

 

[scott625b]

Congrats Red, that is one fine revolver, an obvious dream to own, as are IMHO, any 4" N-frame S&W.

I too have several IL/MIM revolvers and never had a problem with any of them. In fact, I use RIMZ polymer moonclips in my 1917, 625, 25-2, 610 and 646 revos and very proud to say so.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Stranglehold]

Originally posted by girvin02:
I think that, in the future, I will keep my opinions of the IL to myself, as it really is not my intention to offend anyone that owns IL-equipped guns.

So, it has now become politically incorrect to discuss the IL! Is this the "change you can believe in" I've been hearing so much about?

Roe

 

[Shorty4T]

Very nice revolver Red. The IL isn't something to be ashamed of by any means. The IL discussions on this forum do tend to snowball at times. I wouldn't have a problem owning one if it suited my needs and I couldn't find a prelock.

I think where the people oppose the lock is the 1 in a billion chance that the gun is going to fail when you need it the most. The statistics aren't on their side. I don't think that S&W is going to sell a firearm that has a good chance not to go bang when needed. It would be a legal nightmare for them.

You made a great choice in the Mountain Gun, I have a stainless one myself. That being said I think it is equally wrong to be for the lock due to a bad experience you had with a used gun. There are a lot of good used guns out there that would equal or better your 29-8 in both quality and performace, likewaise as you found out there are also a number of bad ones. Unfortunately many of the older used 44s have been shot to death with a lot of full magnum rounds or handloads. You just got unlucky with your purchase.

Cheers,
Sam

 

[bluetopper]

I was a closet IL owner; as a matter of fact I won mine on gunbroker before I realized it had an IL on it.

I wanted to back out of the deal and I made the seller mad. But to keep my feedback at 100% I bit the bullet and went ahead and paid for it.
What I recieved was an as new 6" 629-6 made as well and more accurate than any Smith I'ver ever owned. She's mine and she's a keeper.

 

[Spotteddog]

Does it shoot well. Does it work well. Lastly does it look well. All else is meaningless.

 

[Duke426]

Congratulations on a nice revolver!

I've had three with the lock and still have two (Thunder Ranch 44 Special and a 442) and never had a problem. They are very accurate and have wonderfully smooth actions. Nothing to be ashamed of. Enjoy!!!

 

[44wheelman]

My name is Mark. & I have an IL gun (29-8mtn gun)

Hate locks, don't hate locks...I don't care. Just be open minded to judge each gun on it's own merit.

 

[stevieboy]

My first handgun, which I purchased new a few years ago, was a 686-6 equipped with a lock, MIM parts, and a non-pinned barrel. I had no idea that these aspects meant anything to anyone. Indeed, when I bought the gun I assumed that ALL revolvers, perhaps since the beginning of time, came equipped with an internal lock.

For me, the gun was love at first sight. Since buying it I've put thousands of rounds through it without a hiccup and the gun is almost boringly accurate. It taught me how to shoot and then, it taught my wife how to shoot.

I've since acquired several additional Smith revolvers, some with locks, some without and my experience with them -- the oldest being a 1970 vintage 66 no-dash -- has been universally good. I concluded, after several rewarding purchases, that Smith revolvers, new and old, were among the finest products made by American industry.

It wasn't until last year that I discovered the S & W forum. It didn't take me long to realize that I had inadvertently stumbled into the endless war about the lock, about Smith's
"politics", its manufacturing changes, its attitude towards its customers, and any number of other related issues. And, it didn't take me very long after that to decide that nearly all of the negative commentary emanated either from purists who resent any change in the way things are done or from those who see the internal lock as a craven surrender by Smith's management to some sort of left-wing cabal.

I simply can't be bothered by all of this. Nothing I've heard or read has changed my opinion about the quality of Smith's products. And, as for the political aspects, I see Smith's decision to put a lock in its guns as basically a business judgment. I read no political content into it.

I haven't decided what to buy next. But, I find myself looking longingly from time to time at Smith's classic revolvers, particularly the 21. And no, I couldn't care less if it comes with a lock.

 

[RedBerens]

So, it has now become politically incorrect to discuss the IL! Is this the "change you can believe in" I've been hearing so much about?

Roe

No. And that was not my intention. I just think there is a proper place for it, and I'm hoping this revolver category isn't it. There are two other categories for people to complain about the IL. I just think it would be nice to have an area where a new gun owner - who hasn't been 'educated', can post a photo of his/her new gun, and enjoy all the positive accolades as someone who posts about their 686-1 does. That's all.

I just feel bad every time I see someone post a photo of the new gun they obviously had to save up for, just to hear someone criticize it for one flaw.

 

[markedup]

My name is Mark, and I too own an IL Revolver.
I am "educated". I was privileged to join this
board in Dec.,'07.I read and read and read.And
then I was disappointed to find the oldest posts
had dropped off the end of the board.

I bought a 60 Pro in Oct., '08.
I am Pleased with my first handgun.I
am in my sixth decade.Then, this month I
purchased a P3AT.

I don't give a darn what you folks think.
I am extremely thankfull that you share
on this board what you know.

Thanks

Mark

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by girvin02:
I understand. I can even see how complaining about a feature on a current model is indirectly knocking anyone who has chosen to own that model. I guess that there is no easy way about it. For myself, if I complain about the IL, it is out of frustration, as I REALLY want that 8-shot 27 (sans lock).

I think that, in the future, I will keep my opinions of the IL to myself, as it really is not my intention to offend anyone that owns IL-equipped guns.

I don't think anyone here actually LIKES the lock, me included.

But many of us do not let that consideration stop us from enjoying new revolvers. We know that S&W MIM fire control parts are just as durable as forged ones and that they are much more consistent right out of the box giving newer revolvers sweet actions with little or no rework.

And many of us have also noticed the excellent fitup of important parts of the new guns, which gives them their excellent accuracy. We've even noticed that in many cases the finishing of new blued and nickel guns is excellent, with the new nickel revolvers bordering on the breathtaking.

I am a manufacturing engineer by profession and I have to laugh when I see post after post of people who have never worked in the industry parroting the same ol BS about new S&Ws not being made as well as the old ones when they have no idea of what they are talking about. Listen to a bunch of laymen talk about tolerances and it is pathetic how little they understand such terms.

And the amount of ignorance about metal injection molding in general is staggering. So much that I have given up entering any such discussion.