My new 625 JM first time to Range observations and ???

[missiondude]

Hey all-

Finally got my 625 JM out of our lovely States mandated 10 day "cooling off period" wait. I got a chance to take it to the range yesterday and thought I would share observations on the gun. I will start off with a little info about me. I have been shooting handguns a little over 1-1/2 years pretty steady. I am a mid to upper 50% scorer in USPSA in Limited 10 and Single stack, and almost made SS in IDPA in ESP and CDP. I had only fired a revolver a couple of times before, helping a friend of my wife with a 686, and coaching new shooters using a 22 cal SA revolver. All that to say I shoot ok, and have almost ZERO revolver experience.

I cleaned the gun before going to the range and loaded up 3 RIMZ plastic moonclips with 230 gr FMJ Federal 45 ACP (Wallmart). I sent the first target down to the 7 yard line, cocked the hammer so as to see how the sights were not having to factor in any issues with my DA trigger control. I aimed at the little #5 in the center of the guys head and did a slow press. The single action pull was suprisingly crisp and the round removed the little 5 from the guys head. I guess the factory sets the sights up pretty good. The rest of the 6 rounds on SA fire made a ragged hole with one flier. Switched to DA pull on the next six shooting at center of mass. I was suprised that my shots broke right rather than left telling me I have some trigger control issue, but being new to this I have no idea what it is. With concentration I was able to do much better, and by the end of 50 or 60 rounds, my DA shots at 20 yards were in the A and C zone areas. I bought a set of snap caps, and plan to practice my DA pull, and break in the action.

I can see why everyone gets the cylinder chamfered, as loading the moons fast gave me nothing but problems. The ends of the cases hung on the edges of the holes almost every time. Why does S&W not chamfer the holes stock?

On to the questions...

How do you get rid of the black ring around the cylinder holes? The gun cleaned up nicely after I got home, except I could not get the black rings off the front of the cylinder. It almost looks like heat discoloration, but I did not shoot it much, or that fast.

What is the numeric markings on the yolk that look like a date, but in my guns case predate the fired case date by 7 months? Do they run batches of parts and date them, only to assemble them months later, or is something else going on?

Any recommendations on where to get action work and the cylinder chamfered? I would like to get the trigger pull reduced as much as I can and still use random factory ammo. (I dont want to lose defensive reliability)

Thanks all...

 

[panamajack310]

How do you get rid of the black ring around the cylinder holes? The gun cleaned up nicely after I got home, except I could not get the black rings off the front of the cylinder. It almost looks like heat discoloration, but I did not shoot it much, or that fast.
THERE IS A LEAD REMOVAL CLOTH YOU CAN BUY AT GUNSTORES OR ONLINE. THIS WILL REMOVE THE BLACK MARKS AROUND THE CYLINDER FACE.

What is the numeric markings on the yolk that look like a date, but in my guns case predate the fired case date by 7 months? Do they run batches of parts and date them, only to assemble them months later, or is something else going on? THERE SHOULD BE THE MODEL NUMBER 625-4 AND ALSO ANOTHER NUMBER USUALLY THE SERIAL NUMBER

Any recommendations on where to get action work and the cylinder chamfered? I would like to get the trigger pull reduced as much as I can and still use random factory ammo. (I dont want to lose defensive reliability) YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE THE CYLINDER CHAMFERED. THE 45 DOES NOT REQUIRE THIS TO BE DONE.

 

[missiondude]

Panama-

The number is on the yoke, where as the model # and serial # is on the frame. The number is 0509, the guns born on date is 12-11-09.

Would the black lines around the cylinder be lead even if shooting FMJ?

 

[pred]

Lead or carbon it does not matter.
A "Lead away" cloth will remove it.
But as time goes on, You wont care about it any more.
I dont know who to send it to, To get the charge holes chamfored,
I think it makes a nice difference.
Peter

 

[230therapy]

I sent mine to S&W. Their trigger work for carry, chamfering the charge holes and smoothing of the chambers, made the gun a very nice shooter.

 

[panamajack310]

that is carbon from the gunpowder. THe lead away cloth will get rid of that also the other number 0509 has nothing to do with the manufacturer date, it is simply a part number.

 

[Black_Sheep]

Understand why the model 625 became so popular among competitive shooters? It sounds like you are shooting it well already, with practice it will only get better. If you handload, try some 200 gr LSWC over a mild load of your favorite powder...

 

[missiondude]

230therapy-

Was that a package, or a la carte? S&W lists a "Master Revolver Action Package" for $145 or an "Outdoor Package" for $180 that adds a recessed crown. What did you get, and how much was it?

Thanks

 

[Matthew]

Just curious but what snap caps did you buy? I have some red plastic ones that are old enough to have the markings rubbed off but they do not fit into the moon clips properly.

 

[BUFF]

You don't need a lead-away cloth, although they are handy. I just use one of the brass or bronze "toothbrush" style brushes and Hoppe's and have at it.

 

[Nightowl]

MPro7 and a bronze brush works just dandy.

 

[scooter123]

I use Outers Nitro Solvent in combination with a small patch of Kleen Bore Lead Away cleaning cloth. If you let the Nitro solvent soak on the fouling for 10 or 15 minutes, the carbon fouling will nearly wipe off. I also take the same approach with cleaning the cylinder bores and the barrel, that is that I let the solvent loosen things up and patch them out. Fact is that I am not a big fan of bore brushes, thay have their uses but believe overuse can damage a barrel.

I am also NOT a proponent of lightening the DA trigger pull in any revolver. With practice it's not that difficult to master a 10 lbs. trigger pull and I have concerns about the effect of a lightened trigger on reliability. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't have the action tuned, some expert smoothing of the running surfaces in the lockwork can produce a trigger that is so smooth you don't notice the pull weight. At the most, all I would do is install a slightly lighter rebound spring. That will reduce the DA pull a small amount without effecting the power of the primer strike, however it can slow down the trigger rebound enough to effect how quickly the gun will shoot.

BTW, many shooters new to revolvers don't stroke the trigger properly because they are a bit difficult to shoot well with when starting out. What they will do is "stage" the trigger by taking up most of the stroke and then re-aim and fire. While this can produce good scores on the target, if you make this a habit you won't ever be able to shoot well in rapid fire. The proper DA trigger stroke is one smooth continuous motion until the gun fires. When you are practicing dry fire, watch your sights and try and hold the sights steady throughout the trigger stroke. Start out in slow motion and gradually increase the rate of pull. Also, experiment with the position of your finger pad on the trigger and find the placement that produces the least sight movement during the trigger stroke. One other tip is that it may help to evaluate your progress by holding the trigger back after a pull, this will seperate the sight movement during the trigger pull from that during rebound.

I also recomend that you engage in a LOT of dry fire practice with snap caps. It's cheap and it's good excercize for hte trigger finger. So, practice daily and you'll find that the next time you go to the range you'll be more concerned about muzzle control than your trigger stroke. For that, the only answer is live fire practice, revolvers do respond differently in recoil than a semi auto and that response can vary widely depending on barrel length.

I will also tell you that it took me a good two months of weekly practice for me to approach the accuracy that I could get shooting a semi auto. However, after putting that time into learning how to master shooting a revolver in Double Action, I found that my accuracy with my semi autos had increased a bunch. In addition, a recent range trip with my brother, who wanted to shoot his 22 rifle, revealed that I have also tightened up my groupings with a rifle by a bunch. I ran 17 rounds into a dime sized hole at 50 feet using open sights, which not only pleased me, it also had my brother asking for tips.

Bottomline, my number one tip for any shooter is to get a revolver and to put in the time to master the trigger. It will take some time but the benefit is that you learn how to pull a trigger smoothly. Once you do that, you'll be able to shoot anything well. It's one of the reasons why I am such a fan of wheelguns, they make be a better shooter.

 

[Steve_NEPhila]

Most local gunsmiths will be able to chamfer the charge holes and smooth the action a bit. This should not be expensive. Go to your favorite gunshop and ask for a referral to a good gunsmith that does revolvers.

As for the black rings on the stainless, it will not harm anything so why not leave it. I know it is not as pretty, but too much cleaning is bad for any weapon. Keep her lightly lubed and clean every 500 rounds of regular shooting and it will purr like a kitten.

What do you think of the grips? I personally dig the JM grips a whole lot.

 

[missiondude]

Just curious but what snap caps did you buy? I have some red plastic ones that are old enough to have the markings rubbed off but they do not fit into the moon clips properly.

A-Zoom which are redish purple.

 

[missiondude]

Scooter-

I totally agree with your assesment on the trigger control issues. I shot my 4006 limited in my clubs fun steel match, then shot the revolver as a "second gun". My revolver times were similar to the auto, and I had one less miss scored. The longer harder pull is forcing me to really concentrate on a smooth press and sight picture. I did have an advantage on not having to draw the revolver as our club shoots second guns from low ready, but the advantage is less than a second.

What do you think about staging the trigger on longer head shots? Use the technique, or learn to shoot them in a single press?

 

[kennyb]

i have the 625
JM model from the performance center...have never had a problem with the moons virtually jumping in....love the gun!

 

[festus1]

Missiondude, Are there any revo shooters at the USPSA matches you attend? Pick their brains some the next match you go to. Forget the snap caps and dry fire a lot. I see you are in Ca - check with "apextactical.com" one of the best revo smiths in the nation. You might want to just loose the "spur" - that makes it easier than having to decide whether to cock the hammer or not. If you are serious about shooting in competion get with Apex. Are you familiar with ICORE? The IRC (International Revolver Championship) is this June in San Luis Obispo. Check out icore.org for more info on that. A good cyl chamfer will help a lot with your reloads. On my 3" 625 carry gun that Apex did the action on it ended up at 6 1/2 pounds. I have yet to get it to fail to fire - even with S&B ammo which has one of the hardest primers. My 2 competition 625's are about 4 1/2 lbs and will fire maybe one or two factory rounds out of 6, but they always go bang with Federal primers set below flush. Do you have any steel moon clips yet? I have heard that Rimz clips work well with .40 cal ammo but are quite loose with .45 rounds. As to "staging" the trigger - if you shoot in competition your fellow competitor will probably get off several shots and be on to a reload by the time you get your shot staged. Once you get your gun worked on and smoothed out longer head shots should be a lot easier. As a reference, one of my competition 625's is a performance center gun and from the factory the trigger pull was more than 14 lbs. Even a 7 or 8 pound trigger makes a world of difference. Good shooting.

 

[230therapy]

BTW, many shooters new to revolvers don't stroke the trigger properly because they are a bit difficult to shoot well with when starting out. What they will do is "stage" the trigger by taking up most of the stroke and then re-aim and fire. While this can produce good scores on the target, if you make this a habit you won't ever be able to shoot well in rapid fire. The proper DA trigger stroke is one smooth continuous motion until the gun fires.

I agree and disagree with this. The process is just fine for learning. The problem is that many people never figure out how to reduce the time of the pause until it reaches zero. The result is a bad habit. As the shooter learns the trigger, he or she should reduce the pause to increase speed. The reduction in the length of the pause should not affect accuracy. If the pause is too short for the shooter, it should be lengthened until mastered. The shooter will learn proper continuous trigger pull over time. I highly recommend this procedure both in dry practice and with rimfire ammunition.

S&W work:

Ala carte. I just asked them to do it based upon their pricing listed online. I think it was around $135 with shipping.

 

[missiondude]

Missiondude, Are there any revo shooters at the USPSA matches you attend? Pick their brains some the next match you go to. Forget the snap caps and dry fire a lot. I see you are in Ca - check with "apextactical.com" one of the best revo smiths in the nation. You might want to just loose the "spur" - that makes it easier than having to decide whether to cock the hammer or not. If you are serious about shooting in competion get with Apex. Are you familiar with ICORE? The IRC (International Revolver Championship) is this June in San Luis Obispo. Check out icore.org for more info on that. A good cyl chamfer will help a lot with your reloads. On my 3" 625 carry gun that Apex did the action on it ended up at 6 1/2 pounds. I have yet to get it to fail to fire - even with S&B ammo which has one of the hardest primers. My 2 competition 625's are about 4 1/2 lbs and will fire maybe one or two factory rounds out of 6, but they always go bang with Federal primers set below flush. Do you have any steel moon clips yet? I have heard that Rimz clips work well with .40 cal ammo but are quite loose with .45 rounds. As to "staging" the trigger - if you shoot in competition your fellow competitor will probably get off several shots and be on to a reload by the time you get your shot staged. Once you get your gun worked on and smoothed out longer head shots should be a lot easier. As a reference, one of my competition 625's is a performance center gun and from the factory the trigger pull was more than 14 lbs. Even a 7 or 8 pound trigger makes a world of difference. Good shooting.

One of the guys in my USPSA and IDPA club turned me on to Apex last night at our "Fun Steel" match. I do have steel moons and the Rimz. I will try not to stage the trigger, but at this point I lack the skill/confidence to make a 15 yard headshot on a single press. Thanks for the info.

 

[NE450No2]

Missiondude

I can say that by choosing a S&W in 45 ACP as your first revolver you have done very well.

The more you use it the more you will like it.