My new pocket gun - it starts with a T - and a bit of a diatribe

[dr. mordo]

I love S&W revolvers. I have a bunch, though not enough. However, apparently S&W is not interested in innovation of any kind except a hammer lock and frame mounted firing pin.

Meanwhile Taurus has been doing some interesting things. I'm convinced that they have top notch engineers, but less than optimal production followed by what folks say is terrible customer/warranty service (I haven't required any warranty work for the 6 Taurus pistols I've owned).

The Taurus Tracker line is exactly the type of thing S&W should have developed. It's a L frame cylinder in a K frame with a J frame grip. They have offered them with steel, aluminum, and titanium frames. The trigger out of the box is not as smooth as a S&W, but after a few hundred dry fires it's good enough though still not quite as smooth as a well broken-in Smith.

I have a 617, which is a steel frame 7 shot 357. It's a bit heavy for pocket carry at about 28oz, but is not much bigger than a J frame. I've become a fan of big bore guns, so it's been in the safe for a while now.

However, I recently discovered the 445 Ultralite, which is the same configuration as the 617, but is an aluminum frame 44 SPL snubbie. They are no longer in production, but since my primary CCW is a M629 loaded with hot 44 Specials, I couldn't resist a pocketable 44 SPL back-up-gun.

I found one on Gunbroker and went for it. At 21oz, 44 SPL is quite a handful, but luckily I handload and have some 44 Russian shells that need to be used. So, today I took the 445 UL and 150 rounds of light 44 RUS to the range. Pure fun. Those light RUS loads were just right for the aluminum frame.

I love this gun. That said, I would MUCH rather have the S&W version of this gun. I understand why so many folks don't like Taurus. But S&W doesn't make anything like this gun.

Why can't S&W move forward? As this gun proves, the revolver platform isn't dead. Innovation is still a possibility. Where is the NEW scaled down I frame .327 magnum? Heck, where's the J frame .327, or the 6 shot .38 SPL J frame? How about using the new stronger lighter alloys to create hybrids like my 617/445? Guns designed for concealment are the rage, and revolvers are obviously making a comeback, but S&W introduces a *******ization of the 4" Model 19, one of the most common revolvers ever made. They improved it by putting a lock on it. Great work guys, really outside-the-box thinking there.

Compared to my former pocket gun, a S&W 637:

 

[OLDSTER]

Great post, and thoughtful incite. Re; Taurus, my revolvers are all S&W, however, one of my shootin' buddies has owned a really nice "older" Taurus Model 85 for years. It has a beautiful blued finish, nice trigger, and shoots as good as either of my Models 36. My only interest is Smiths, but it seems unfortunate that many shooters don't buy from Taurus. ??

 

[Richard Simmons]

Like the post and the gun. To answer your question, S&W probably doesn't make somethin similar for the same reason Taurus quit making that one. The sales just aren't there.

 

[kraynky]

I also love the 44 special, and I own and sometimes carry my 696. Which is a heavy piece with 5 rounds in the wheel. I felt fortunate to stumble across an older (1987?) 445 stainless snubby, also a 5 shot .

I've been carrying it quite often, because I like it. All of my other revolvers are S&W, because I like them even more. I wish S&W would make a similar sized 44 special. This Taurus is smaller than the Ruger GP100 44 spcl.

I have a picture of the two of them here some where on this new phone.......... hang tite, I need to find that nice young feller that works here first.......grrrrr!

 

[steelslaver]

396 scandium alloy L frame 44 special with a titanium cylinder
No J frame grips. But, is light and easy to carry.

1.72 lb loaded with 5 200 gr. spares in a speed strip. 27.5oz The ammo is probably around 5.5 oz.

For the purists. I have the original hammer and steel cylinder that came with it.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Have you tried a SW Model 340 PD Airweight? Easy pocket carry with 5 rounds of 357.

 

[dr. mordo]

Have you tried a SW Model 340 PD Airweight? Easy pocket carry with 5 rounds of 357.

I have not fired one, but I've handled one. I think the 340 is too much of a good thing.

My problem is I like to shoot my guns and the 340 is so incredibly light it's hard to imagine that even incredibly light loads would be pleasant to shoot. It's also so light that I worry that follow up shots would be nigh impossible. The 445 has a cartridge with less power than a full tilt 357 (especially with my handloads), but is a heavier gun. And it's in the same caliber as my primary CCW, which is the main reason it appeals to me.

 

[BC38]

I love S&W revolvers. I have a bunch, though not enough. However, apparently S&W is not interested in innovation of any kind except a hammer lock and frame mounted firing pin.

Meanwhile Taurus has been doing some interesting things. I'm convinced that they have top notch engineers, but less than optimal production followed by what folks say is terrible customer/warranty service (I haven't required any warranty work for the 6 Taurus pistols I've owned).

The Taurus Tracker line is exactly the type of thing S&W should have developed. It's a L frame cylinder in a K frame with a J frame grip. They have offered them with steel, aluminum, and titanium frames. The trigger out of the box is not as smooth as a S&W, but after a few hundred dry fires it's good enough though still not quite as smooth as a well broken-in Smith.

I have a 617, which is a steel frame 7 shot 357. It's a bit heavy for pocket carry at about 28oz, but is not much bigger than a J frame. I've become a fan of big bore guns, so it's been in the safe for a while now.

However, I recently discovered the 445 Ultralite, which is the same configuration as the 617, but is an aluminum frame 44 SPL snubbie. They are no longer in production, but since my primary CCW is a M629 loaded with hot 44 Specials, I couldn't resist a pocketable 44 SPL back-up-gun.

I found one on Gunbroker and went for it. At 21oz, 44 SPL is quite a handful, but luckily I handload and have some 44 Russian shells that need to be used. So, today I took the 445 UL and 150 rounds of light 44 RUS to the range. Pure fun. Those light RUS loads were just right for the aluminum frame.

I love this gun. That said, I would MUCH rather have the S&W version of this gun. I understand why so many folks don't like Taurus. But S&W doesn't make anything like this gun.

Why can't S&W move forward? As this gun proves, the revolver platform isn't dead. Innovation is still a possibility. Where is the NEW scaled down I frame .327 magnum? Heck, where's the J frame .327, or the 6 shot .38 SPL J frame? How about using the new stronger lighter alloys to create hybrids like my 617/445? Guns designed for concealment are the rage, and revolvers are obviously making a comeback, but S&W introduces a *******ization of the 4" Model 19, one of the most common revolvers ever made. They improved it by putting a lock on it. Great work guys, really outside-the-box thinking there.

I'm with you Doc.

My 617 is the Titanium version - just over 19oz unloaded. Great CCW with 7 rounds of any flavor of 357 I care to handload or buy.

I also have the steel version of your 445 - the 44C, though mine is a Rossi 441 it was made by Taurus and is marked 44C in the yoke cut. Being all steel it is chambered for the 44 magnum instead of the special. Needless to say at only 23 ounces, full-house magnums are just a bit of a handful.

 

[beagleye]

You're right about the potential of the revolver. Good post.

 

[steelslaver]

By they way I also have a Taurus 431, a blue steel 5 shot, fixed sight, 44 special. It is slightly smaller than my 396 and 696. Slightly heavier than my CA Bulldogs. Bought it before finding my 696 and 396.

Lots of people bash Taurus guns, all I know is the 431 I have has always functioned and shot well, very decent trigger too. Probably going to be sending it and the CA bulldogs down the road though. Not bad guns, Just to many S&Ws.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I have not fired one, but I've handled one. I think the 340 is too much of a good thing.

My problem is I like to shoot my guns and the 340 is so incredibly light it's hard to imagine that even incredibly light loads would be pleasant to shoot. It's also so light that I worry that follow up shots would be nigh impossible. The 445 has a cartridge with less power than a full tilt 357 (especially with my handloads), but is a heavier gun. And it's in the same caliber as my primary CCW, which is the main reason it appeals to me.

With 38 Special it is very manageable in all regards out of the box. With practice, 357 becomes manageable if not pleasant. Some people report that changes to the grips helps on 357. If not pleasant to shoot with 357, it is always pleasant to carry and easy to deploy. Point is, it is so easy and effortless to carry, that I will have it if I need it. It is all in what you look. Family members and other anti-gunners never know they are sitting next to a gun. Best regards!

 

[Drm50]

I believe I'll stick with S&W.

 

[CustomChevyGuy]

I had a very poor experience with my stainless Taurus 24/7 .45 semi. It was eventually replaced. It was in for service for almost 2 years before they decided they couldn't repair. Then decided to send me a replacement 9 months after the original replacement promise date. When the blued 24/7 Gen 2 finally arrived looked so horrible with it's fit and finish, I sold it brand new in box as soon as I could.

My dad has a Model 66 .357 which he really likes, but has recently found some damage to the cylinder. Not sure if he'll be sending it in for repairs yet.

While I appreciate Taurus' willingness to be creative with their offerings, I think they have suffered from trying to run before they could walk.

 

[ACORN]

Doc. I have the same gun in blue and like it a lot. It’s more comfortable
to shoot than my Bulldog and has a nicer trigger pull. They are nice guns that pack a wallop in a small package. It’s a shame they’re out of production.

 

[ShivasIrons]

Nice Gun! Taurus makes/made some interesting options over the years.

I own a few Taurus and I have only had one that was a true Piece of Junk. It was a Poly Protector that went back to the factory and was still not right.

It never takes long for the Taurus Boo Birds to come out of the woodwork. Very few of them have much experience with the brand. They bought one and it was a ***, so they are all junk or they heard from a friend that had one etc...

Love my M380 and the Model 85 series are what they do best IMHO.

 

[Beemer-mark]

I have not fired one, but I've handled one. I think the 340 is too much of a good thing.

My problem is I like to shoot my guns and the 340 is so incredibly light it's hard to imagine that even incredibly light loads would be pleasant to shoot. It's also so light that I worry that follow up shots would be nigh impossible. The 445 has a cartridge with less power than a full tilt 357 (especially with my handloads), but is a heavier gun. And it's in the same caliber as my primary CCW, which is the main reason it appeals to me.

I never thought myself recoil sensitive but when the 340 came out I had the chance to shoot one. After the second shot I gave it back. I couldn't hold onto it, too light and grip to small. Might be light to carry but you would have to be well trained to hit anything with the second shot.