my response to "no guns allowed" sign

wheelyfun66

wheelyfun66

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Hey All,
I live in VT, which has Constitutional carry (no permit needed to carry a firearm concealed).

I have a permit for a neighboring state (NH) and frequently shop at a hardware/home builder's store located in NH.

After years of shopping there, I suddenly see a sign on the front door: "no firearms allowed".

I am, of course, carrying concealed.

I am on a mission to purchase 5 gallons of paint, an expensive infra-red heater, and various tools and wood for a project.

The first thing I do, however, is go to the aisle with tools in it, grab a nice Hatchet, and stick it in the loop of my carpenter's Carhartt pants.

After I am done shopping, while at the check-out, the clerk asks, "Are you buying that Hatchet"?

I reply, "no, but I saw your NO GUNS sign, and wanted some form of self protection while shopping".

He did not laugh....but seemed baffled.

I know, I know, I shouldn't shop there if I do not honor or agree with their policy.......but it is the "Live Free or Die" state, and I choose to shut up and carry concealed.

Funniest part was, I WAS carrying concealed while this occurred!
(I know that some will flame me for this....and I can accept that!)
 
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Now me I would have loaded the things into the cart and taken them to CS. I would then proceeded to explain to them this is the sale they lost by having the sign, while I was still carrying without their knowledge but I wouldn't have told them. Like most stores they don't know or care what other dangerous objects they sell, as long as it's not a firearm. Heck I bet you could have bought a .22 stud gun there with blanks.
 
I'm sorry. This isn't really a flame. But what sort of history did you know or what sort of intel did you have that made you feel the need for protection in a hardware store?

And you made your Constitutional protest to the checkout clerk?
 
Very creative, I like it. For those that ask "Why do you feel you need to carry in a hardware store" I would make the observation that I never know where evil is going to make it's appearance. Accordingly I will carry a sidearm anywhere I can.

I hope you find this helpful.
 
10mmauto said:
I'm sorry. This isn't really a flame. But what sort of history did you know or what sort of intel did you have that made you feel the need for protection in a hardware store?

And you made your Constitutional protest to the checkout clerk?
Click to expand...

What sort of "history" or "intel" did I know that "made me feel the need for protection"?

My good man, are you serious? Why do ANY of us carry a defensive weapon?

Oh, forget it. I just noticed that you are in NY state and are LEO. My bad. (And yes, my magazines hold more than 7 rounds(
 
10mmauto said:
what sort of history did you know or what sort of intel did you have that made you feel the need for protection in a hardware store?
Click to expand...

Do you only buckle your seat belt on roads with a history of crashes? Do you deem it necessary to have a fire extinguisher in your home even though you may never have had a fire before?
 
Really, we have to think in advance of leaving the house whether we MIGHT wind up somewhere that having a gun to protect ours or our family's life would be prudent?????? I don't know about others but I'm not clairvoyant. I try to avoid trouble and bad areas whenever possible but evil exists all around us. Myself, and most CCP holders I know, value the life of ourselves and our family. That is why we carry. I'm not trying to make a statement by carrying or be a tough guy. I also don't want to have to shoot someone in self defense but if necessary I will.

I holster up when I leave the house and try to avoid locations where I have to unholster but do so if the law requires (banks, post office, court house etc).

As many others have said, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

BTW, never been to NY, not sure I'll ever need to go.
 
I don't want to be caught in a "situation" where I need my concealed carry weapon and don't have it. I don't trust Kooks and Wackos to allow a "timeout" while I fetch my weapon.

:)
 
I cannot demand that one respect my 2A Rights and at the same time ignore someone else's Private Property Rights. Whether the sign is worded correctly in the appropriate font and letter height and "carries the power of the law" or whether it is "just a preference" on the part of the proprietor, the message is as clear as a "no trespassing" sign - and if you doubt the validity of those, find the threads about farmers and hunting season! I simply make note of it and avoid such places.

Easy-Peasy...
 
I'm a firm believer in "keeping your mouth shut". I carry and don't ever say anything about it. The old rule of thumb is "a person shouldn't know you have a gun until they are shot". That being said, screw the hardware store, just go about your business as usual. Why make a scene?
 
islamoradamark said:
because they got a sign and u are carrying consealed does that mean the hardware store person can shake u down? number 2 that sign dont mean nothing u got rights
Click to expand...

What are these "rights" you speak of?

The right to enter someone's private property against their posted wishes? That's not a right that I extend to anyone. And it's a criminal act I choose not to engage in.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Gun owners are own worst enemy. Smart@ss comments and actions in protest of Gun Free zones do what exactly? Educate business owners not be jerks too the folks who just work their. Look at the Starbucks drama. Its the business owners business you don't like his rules tell him not his employees and take your business elsewhere, and make sure he knows why. Come on people the left is attacking us daily, don't give them an inch. Acting a fool hurts our cause.
 
I can read the constitution and I believe all these laws forbidding keeping and bearing arms, whether a state law or hardware store "no guns" sign, violates the constitution. I simply don't let them violate my rights, unless there's a metal detector involved.
 
Jhawk412 said:
I can read the constitution and I believe all these laws forbidding keeping and bearing arms, whether a state law or hardware store "no guns" sign, violates the constitution. I simply don't let them violate my rights, unless there's a metal detector involved.
Click to expand...

The Constitution protects your rights from the Goverenment. It does not allow you to go onto private property and do whatever you want against the wished of the property owner.

You have the right to take your business elsewhere. Not act a fool.
 
blujax01 said:
I cannot demand that one respect my 2A Rights and at the same time ignore someone else's Private Property Rights. Whether the sign is worded correctly in the appropriate font and letter height and "carries the power of the law" or whether it is "just a preference" on the part of the proprietor, the message is as clear as a "no trespassing" sign - and if you doubt the validity of those, find the threads about farmers and hunting season! I simply make note of it and avoid such places.

Easy-Peasy...
Click to expand...

NOPE. The hardware store is open to the public. The farmers land is totally private. Apples and oranges!!

As long as the signs NO GUNS has no legal bearing and I keep my CCW concealed it is no ones business. Just the lawyers trying to do good.................and failing.
 
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10mmauto said:
But what sort of history did you know or what sort of intel did you have that made you feel the need for protection in a hardware store?
Click to expand...

When my wife asked why I felt the need to pocket carry in my ski pants, I told her because my crystal ball was broken and I didn't know WHEN I may need to protect myself or her.....

.
 
Road Rat said:
NOPE. The hardware store is open to the public. The farmers land is totally primate. Apples and oranges!!

As long as the signs NO GUNS has no legal bearing and I keep my CCW concealed it is no ones business. Just the lawyers trying to do good.................and failing.
Click to expand...

So you ignore the posted hours on the door, too?

"CLOSED"??? Not the law, just a preference...

I could continue to point out how wrong you are but it would be useless. :rolleyes:
 
wheelyfun66 said:
Hey All,
I live in VT, which has Constitutional carry (no permit needed to carry a firearm concealed).

I have a permit for a neighboring state (NH) and frequently shop at a hardware/home builder's store located in NH.

After years of shopping there, I suddenly see a sign on the front door: "no firearms allowed".

I am, of course, carrying concealed.

I am on a mission to purchase 5 gallons of paint, an expensive infra-red heater, and various tools and wood for a project.

The first thing I do, however, is go to the aisle with tools in it, grab a nice Hatchet, and stick it in the loop of my carpenter's Carhartt pants.

After I am done shopping, while at the check-out, the clerk asks, "Are you buying that Hatchet"?

I reply, "no, but I saw your NO GUNS sign, and wanted some form of self protection while shopping".

He did not laugh....but seemed baffled.

I know, I know, I shouldn't shop there if I do not honor or agree with their policy.......but it is the "Live Free or Die" state, and I choose to shut up and carry concealed.

Funniest part was, I WAS carrying concealed while this occurred!
(I know that some will flame me for this....and I can accept that!)
Click to expand...





Hahahaha that was funny. And I carry when I see a sign that reads no guns allowed. I understand their position, but on any given day I'd rather be caught with it than without. Although, I try to avoid most of these places at all costs! (If I can)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In Michigan, the signs that these businesses post are not enforceable under law and are simply the wishes and preferences of the business owner. It is not against the law to carry in these establishments, and they may only ask you to leave if they find that you are carrying.

The illegal part is when you choose to, instead, stay at their establishment after being asked off of the premises. Then you are trespassing. That is when the law is able to step in. Not until.

If I get called to come and deal with a situation where a business has found that someone is CCW-ing in their establishment and no one has approached this person to ask them off, I will simply wait until an employee has asked that person to leave (in my presence) and then I will take it from there.
 
I carry wherever I go even if I think I won't need to. I have been unable to determine where that is. I avoid places that won't allow me to carry unless it's absolutely necessary that I go there. No gun signs have the force of law in WI.
 
Road Rat said:
NOPE. The hardware store is open to the public. The farmers land is totally primate. Apples and oranges!!

As long as the signs NO GUNS has no legal bearing and I keep my CCW concealed it is no ones business. Just the lawyers trying to do good.................and failing.
Click to expand...

I disagree . The sign has a legal bearing but you refuse to acknowledge it, and lose the moral high ground.

The business, like the farm, is private property. The owner does get to set the rules, within a broad framework of laws. You are not in a protected group. Saying that the signs have no legal effect is just a way of rationalizing poor behavior. The sign that you choose to ignore is the store owners polite way of informing you upfront that carrying a gun onto his property is against his rules, and that is trespassing.. He does not need a sign or a reason to trespass you. The signs laws just point out procedures, whether the store owner needs to personally tell you, and lets you know at what point the law drops the hammer. The trespass starts when you walk past the sign. That is the definition of trespass.

The reciprocal behavior is the store owner has a picnic in your back yard, because he doesn't believe in your property rights, or your neighbor climbing a fence to get at your swimming pool. Not only illegal behavior, but rude. Your rights end where the store owners begins. This is a situation that just calls for a MWAG call and spreading the trespasser on the floor.

Rationalize it any way you want, the law calls it "trespass", a centuries old crime that recognizes the owners right to control what is his. You do not have a legal or moral right to enter in violation of the rules. You don't like the owners rules, your legal and moral options are 1) go elsewhere, 2) convince the owner to change the rule, 3)explain to the nice cop why your right to carry trumps the owners rights. The cop will not agree with you.

Farmers land is not "primate" or primal, or primitive. Between clearing, leveling, ditching and draining, and fencing, being worked with modern equipment, and selling for 2 to 12 thousand dollars an acre, a farm is a high tech food factory, with the purpose of making money for the owner. The "No Guns" sign is precisely the same as the farmers "No Hunting or Trespassing" sign.
 
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