Maybe 1 of the 12 killed in Aurora wished he/she had "smuggled" their gun into the theater, it was a gun free zone afterall. No criminals ever enter gun free zones.
my response to "no guns allowed" sign
- Thread starter wheelyfun66
- Start date
Rastoff
US Veteran
The logic here doesn't track. You are aware that you can't have your gun anywhere on Post Office property, including the parking lot, right? So, if your car is broken into while in the Post Office parking lot, and your gun is stolen, the government cannot be held responsible because you're breaking the law. If you're doing the right thing and parking off Post Office property then they can't be held responsible because your car was on property not under their control.
Interesting. I had not noticed (or forgotten) that little tidbit since Missouri has extensive protections for possession of a firearm in a vehicle. But change is in the air! I looked it up on Handgunlaw.us and found this note:
Protected One
Member
I don't know where you live but it's different here. I have a friend who is a county sheriff. He and his wife, along with me and my wife often go to "screenings" for upcoming movies. Most of the time they are "wanding" and searching people as we enter the theatre. When we get to the front of the line he just says "gun in this pocket...knife in this one". Sometimes they ask for his I.D. but they've never turned us away yet.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Good catch Ransom. I wonder how that will play out in other states.
First let me state that I hate the law. All of them are written in such a way that it's almost impossible to tell what's what. Having said that, here is what the current code says about Weapons and Explosives:
39 CFR 232.1
(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property. (I would like to note that at my local post office this is posted in tiny lettering on an 8 1/2"x11" sheet of paper on a bulletin board far at the back in an unlit corner. Not very conspicuous to me.)
This is the very first statement in the code. As you can see, it applies to all real property. Later in the code it says this:
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.
This is the part that disallows guns.
It is important to note that while the Bonidy vs USPS case ruled it unconstitutional, on the same page on Handgunlaw.us there is another case, USA v Clarance Paul Dorosan, that upheld the no carry on postal property.
So, the issue isn't solved yet. The one case may only apply to Colorado. Clearly more research needs to be done on this subject.
First let me state that I hate the law. All of them are written in such a way that it's almost impossible to tell what's what. Having said that, here is what the current code says about Weapons and Explosives:
39 CFR 232.1
(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property. (I would like to note that at my local post office this is posted in tiny lettering on an 8 1/2"x11" sheet of paper on a bulletin board far at the back in an unlit corner. Not very conspicuous to me.)
This is the very first statement in the code. As you can see, it applies to all real property. Later in the code it says this:
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.
This is the part that disallows guns.
It is important to note that while the Bonidy vs USPS case ruled it unconstitutional, on the same page on Handgunlaw.us there is another case, USA v Clarance Paul Dorosan, that upheld the no carry on postal property.
So, the issue isn't solved yet. The one case may only apply to Colorado. Clearly more research needs to be done on this subject.
TexasArmed
Member
Sorry, the post office in my town does not own the street, and I supposed they are to cheap to build one with a parking lot like other cities do. But then I have seen police not on official business enter it armed and when I mentioned this issue to one of them he asked me who did the post office call if they have a problem. So no I am not worried about that issue because my post office has no parking lot. In fact they need a new post office and tried to get loose from the one they got, till local folks objecting to it being closed down. You apparently live in a place where the post office actually has parking lots. Another thing about Texas rural areas, if there was a disease going around we have to go there anyways, because the post office will not deliver to any apartment complex. There are whole towns where there is only Post Office Boxes.
A couple of thoughts:
1. Post Offices - your representatives need to hear from you. Rand Paul has introduced legislation which would allow firearms at the post office.
Rand Paul Wants You to Come to the Post Office Packing - Businessweek
2. Sometimes those apps which identify gun-free zones are humorous. An indoor gun range I shoot at has a sign which says all guns must be unloaded. No force of law, other than trespass. It shows on the gun free app.
3. A local hardware store in my area recently posted no guns allowed. On the local gun forum, there was a bit of discussion. Mostly though, people were encouraged to talk to the owner. Several took their business elsewhere; and told the owner they did so. The sign is no longer there.
4. Do not come to the attention of police. With a million laws on the books you are undoubtedly a criminal. Federal, agencies, state, regional, city, county ... being in possession of a firearm while committing a crime, ups the ante quite a bit.
1. Post Offices - your representatives need to hear from you. Rand Paul has introduced legislation which would allow firearms at the post office.
Rand Paul Wants You to Come to the Post Office Packing - Businessweek
2. Sometimes those apps which identify gun-free zones are humorous. An indoor gun range I shoot at has a sign which says all guns must be unloaded. No force of law, other than trespass. It shows on the gun free app.
3. A local hardware store in my area recently posted no guns allowed. On the local gun forum, there was a bit of discussion. Mostly though, people were encouraged to talk to the owner. Several took their business elsewhere; and told the owner they did so. The sign is no longer there.
4. Do not come to the attention of police. With a million laws on the books you are undoubtedly a criminal. Federal, agencies, state, regional, city, county ... being in possession of a firearm while committing a crime, ups the ante quite a bit.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Wow, I've never seen a post office without a parking lot before.
TexasArmed
Member
Maybe that's why it was on the closure list, because its an old building costing them too much to maintain it. But unless they build a new one people are going to complain to have to drive 30 miles or so to another one. I cannot understand how the post office can refuse to deliver mail at apartment complexes, too. In the event of a national epidemic veterans are going to the post office for their meds. Awhile back the VA experimented with using alternative delivery service.
I have never seen an old post office like this one either. It actually has a 3 letter combination on the PO Boxes to open them. I expect it will be up for closure again at some point.
I never lived anywhere else before Texas that relies so heavily on Post Office Boxes. I told them one day that if I got sick I still have to come there to pick up my medicine.
I have never seen an old post office like this one either. It actually has a 3 letter combination on the PO Boxes to open them. I expect it will be up for closure again at some point.
I never lived anywhere else before Texas that relies so heavily on Post Office Boxes. I told them one day that if I got sick I still have to come there to pick up my medicine.
Didn't the PO ban guns on postal property because their employees went bonkers?
Rastoff
US Veteran
I don't know if it was illegal before that first employee when nuts with his AK-47. I'm certain that those incidents didn't help things.
snowman
Member
Sir,
Few post offices in this area, large or small, have parking lots. I live in a village of 1000 people or so and we must park on the street; same story in a nearby county seat with a population of 40,000 or so.
Regards,
Andy
shep854
Member
Here in Alabama, all I've seen on the post office door is a sign that says violence to postal employees is a Federal offense; no 'NO GUNS' sign.
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On a slight tangent; Alabama has had CCW for many years, and open carry was recently codified into law. AFTER this, I've seen NO GUNS signs start popping up. I can only conclude it is a reaction to OC'ers making other customers nervous.
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On a slight tangent; Alabama has had CCW for many years, and open carry was recently codified into law. AFTER this, I've seen NO GUNS signs start popping up. I can only conclude it is a reaction to OC'ers making other customers nervous.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I believe you. I've just never seen one.
If the pistol is concealed then that is a personal decision. It is a misdemeanor to ignore a sign like that here in AZ.
As far as open carry; I wish folks would use their heads! Yea it's legal here too, but it freaks people out & the consequence is more damn signs FROM KNEE JERK business owners.....not to mention the concerned citizens calling the cops on someone who isn't breaking any laws, other than offending a liberal. Seriously though, we LEO's get sick of those calls just to tell the caller they are wasting everyone's time. However, if guns are hidden then everyone is happy & you are not a target. Ignorance is bliss for the sheeple.
As far as open carry; I wish folks would use their heads! Yea it's legal here too, but it freaks people out & the consequence is more damn signs FROM KNEE JERK business owners.....not to mention the concerned citizens calling the cops on someone who isn't breaking any laws, other than offending a liberal. Seriously though, we LEO's get sick of those calls just to tell the caller they are wasting everyone's time. However, if guns are hidden then everyone is happy & you are not a target. Ignorance is bliss for the sheeple.
NavalOps
Member
I'm not familiar with CCP laws in other states, but here in Florida it is not illegal to carry a concealed firearm into a bank, unless there is a sign specifically stating that firearms are not allowed. However, since I do work in a bank, they don't let me bring it with me while on the clock
. I do get a kick out of watching the armored car workers come in; I get to see all the pistols that they carry. I've never seen them carry an M&P though, it's usually a Glock…I feel bad for them. 
TexasArmed
Member
My goodness, I hope you did not assume from Rastoff's response to my post that I violated any law, I did not. He was not aware that at my post office, there is not a post office parking lots. Guess we never got our fair share of federal dollars.
But a private business could never get away with forcing you
to shop at their business without a parking lot, forcing you to disarm before going there, and refusing to deliver a service like mail delivery to apartment complexes.
The post office is still a gun free zone inside the post office without any signs being posted. So I always go to the exta trouble of disarming and locking my vehicle when leaving my
gun inside the vehicle. Of course if the post office had a parking it would be illegal to park in it with a gun inside the vehicle. No, I comply with all the current laws, but I would not comply
with a law that suddenly made my revolvers illegal or directed me to register them. When it gets that bad its time to draw the line and just say no.
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