My trigger is acting up...

[TYSTYX]

My hammer pin keeps walking out on the right side. I've never removed the FCG and the problem started after about 500 rounds through the gun. My J spring is fine. I don't have the tools to clean up or recut the groove on the pin, so I finally just said screw it and bought the KNS pin set direct from KNS Industries. They should be here next week. I ordered the Gen 2 Mod 2 set.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

If the J-spring is broken, there's nothing keeping the hammer pin from moving side-to-side. The KNS pins would keep it in place, but would only be a band-aid.

The JP pins hold everything in place, just like the KNS. Someone will have to document where any AR type gun has had issues with a pin rotating. Think about how many pins are in an AR.

I think some of you guys just like having more stuff hanging off your rifle.

 

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

I still contend that the majority of the time, the problem is caused by repeated disassembly of the FCG every time the rifle is cleaned. In reality, the FCG in the 15-22 only needs to be disassembled if something breaks.

Well I can assure you that I never took apart the FCG. The pin just started walking on its own.

 

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

My hammer pin keeps walking out on the right side. I've never removed the FCG and the problem started after about 500 rounds through the gun. My J spring is fine. I don't have the tools to clean up or recut the groove on the pin, so I finally just said screw it and bought the KNS pin set direct from KNS Industries. They should be here next week. I ordered the Gen 2 Mod 2 set.

How can you tell if your j spring is fine? So far it had been assumed that mine, but that's all speculation. I mean I fixed the problem by pushing the pin back in, but I'm still unsure if I have to replace the j spring or not.

 

[TYSTYX]

The J pin is actually inserted into the hammer from the bottom. Sometimes they break where the bend is. Once that happens it usually falls out and the hammer pin has no way to lock in place.

 

[TYSTYX]

The JP pins hold everything in place, just like the KNS. Someone will have to document where any AR type gun has had issues with a pin rotating. Think about how many pins are in an AR.

I think some of you guys just like having more stuff hanging off your rifle.

Well, I figure that if owners can put on a 600+ dollar optic on their 15-22, or spend more than 20 cents per round for 22 ammo, then 33 bucks for the KNS set up isn't really that bad of a deal.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Well, I figure that if owners can put on a 600+ dollar optic on their 15-22, or spend more than 20 cents per round for 22 ammo, then 33 bucks for the KNS set up isn't really that bad of a deal.

Hey I agree but IMO both parts do exactly the same thing, so why throw your money away?

That is the exact same logic I used in buying the CMC drop in trigger. IMO, this gun (or at least my gun) needed a better trigger. I don't know a hammer from a sear or a j spring from a whatever that little thingie is. I'm just not mechanically inclined. I know folks, like the Major, can buy trigger components cheaper than my drop in, and have a nice trigger. Good for them & I wish I felt comfortable doing that myself. Reality is... I can't do that. I would put the wrong spring in the wrong place or something else just as stupid. However anyone can drop in a CMC & never have to worry about what goes where... plus you now have a match grade trigger.

To me, I want a fine gun, a smooth light trigger & a nice optic for my old eyes. Everything else is just gravy.

 

[Gopher Slayer]

The JP pins hold everything in place, just like the KNS.

I didn't think you understood why someone would suggest something other than factory pins.

I wasn't arguing brand names or better designs. Guess I misread your post.


Personally, I would call S&W and tell them they should stop using these cheap FCG components if they want the 15-22 to keep a decent reputation. Then I would ask them to ship me a new hammer free of charge.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I didn't think you understood why someone would suggest something other than factory pins.

I wasn't arguing brand names or better designs. Guess I misread your post.

No problem. I use anti-walk pins on both my AR & 15-22. I personally don't see the need for non rotating & personally don't like the look of that bar connecting the 2 pins on the KNS. Besides that, they both do their job well.

FCG is just too important. I don't want my pins walking & I shoot much better with a match grade trigger. That combo is the first purchase I would make for any AR type weapon.

 

[Gopher Slayer]

Do the JP pins bottom out(touch the rec.) due to the 15-22's wider upper receiver?

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Do the JP pins bottom out(touch the rec.) due to the 15-22's wider upper receiver?

They are oversized & fit mine perfectly.

 

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

The J pin is actually inserted into the hammer from the bottom. Sometimes they break where the bend is. Once that happens it usually falls out and the hammer pin has no way to lock in place.

Oh okay, then I guess mine isn't broken since nothing has fallen out of the lower receiver. It must be getting week though.

 

[Gopher Slayer]

Oh okay, then I guess mine isn't broken since nothing has fallen out of the lower receiver. It must be getting week though.

With the hammer forward, try pushing the pin out. If it moves with little to no pressure the J-spring is toast.

They are oversized & fit mine perfectly.

I'm talking length, not diameter.
Can you tighten the screw heads all the way down without them bottoming out on the sides of the receiver?

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Can you tighten the screw heads all the way down without them bottoming out on the sides of the receiver?

Yep. I have looked for the specs but see nothing on their length. You know the specs for either?

 

[Gopher Slayer]

Yep. I have looked for the specs but see nothing on their length. You know the specs for either?

I don't.
It's good to know they fit properly on both receiver sizes though. They must have plenty of slack side to side on an AR15 receiver.

 

[R4MBLIN WRECK]

With the hammer forward, try pushing the pin out. If it moves with little to no pressure the J-spring is toast.

Well I did what you said and the pin moved out of place, but I wouldn't say that it moved with little to no pressure.

 

[photoracer]

The JP pins hold everything in place, just like the KNS. Someone will have to document where any AR type gun has had issues with a pin rotating. Think about how many pins are in an AR.

I think some of you guys just like having more stuff hanging off your rifle.

Yes they do have issues. That is why they make oversize pins at .1555 in addition to normal .154. It is the rotating of the high grade steel pins in a polymer or alloy holes that creates the wear. Not going to happen right away of course but if they keep popping out of the side holes that will increase wear in polymer for sure. I have them in both my 15-22s and my ARs. Some drop in trigger makers actually include them in the installation kit. I also have a set of the JPs with the clips. They work good in keeping the pins in place but do nothing for the wear issues.

 

[DoItRtOrNtAll]

Hey guys, seems to me I'm having a similar problem. Seeing as this is my first rifle, I'm new to guns. I was out at the range yesterday and this is whats happening to me, I fire one round and the trigger doesn't reset, if I push the trigger forward with my finger, I hear a click, and the rifle can be fired again. Being that I am a service tech, I am mechanically savvy. I removed my lower and have disassembled my FCG and I don't see anything that is obviously broken, the pins holding the FCG in did not walk, and were even when I removed them, so am I looking at a broken "J spring" inside the hammer? I don't know how I would check it, or remove it. It looks intact but could be broken somewhere inside the hammer not visible unless taken out.

 

[yugowego]

Hey guys, seems to me I'm having a similar problem. Seeing as this is my first rifle, I'm new to guns. I was out at the range yesterday and this is whats happening to me, I fire one round and the trigger doesn't reset, if I push the trigger forward with my finger, I hear a click, and the rifle can be fired again. Being that I am a service tech, I am mechanically savvy. I removed my lower and have disassembled my FCG and I don't see anything that is obviously broken, the pins holding the FCG in did not walk, and were even when I removed them, so am I looking at a broken "J spring" inside the hammer? I don't know how I would check it, or remove it. It looks intact but could be broken somewhere inside the hammer not visible unless taken out.

With the hammer out of the lower, put the hammer pin in the hammer and see if it "locks" into the J spring. It will be hard to push or pull the pin out of the hammer if it is locking with the J spring properly.

 

[Gopher Slayer]

Hey guys, seems to me I'm having a similar problem. Seeing as this is my first rifle, I'm new to guns. I was out at the range yesterday and this is whats happening to me, I fire one round and the trigger doesn't reset, if I push the trigger forward with my finger, I hear a click, and the rifle can be fired again. Being that I am a service tech, I am mechanically savvy. I removed my lower and have disassembled my FCG and I don't see anything that is obviously broken, the pins holding the FCG in did not walk, and were even when I removed them, so am I looking at a broken "J spring" inside the hammer? I don't know how I would check it, or remove it. It looks intact but could be broken somewhere inside the hammer not visible unless taken out.

Look inside the hole of the hammer. If you can see a little piece of metal sticking out then it's not broken. Or just try pushing the pin through the hammer while not in place. If it doesn't catch, then the spring is weak or broken.

Not my pic, but it shows what I'm talking about.

 

[DoItRtOrNtAll]

Okay, so I can see the spring in the hole of the hammer. And when I push the pin in, it does take some pressure along with removing it.

I did note that while fully assembled, the disconnector would catch on the lip of the hammer, and when I pushed the trigger forward, it would slip off and the hammer, which would then rotate forward and would be cocked normally

 

[yugowego]

Okay, so I can see the spring in the hole of the hammer. And when I push the pin in, it does take some pressure along with removing it.

I did note that while fully assembled, the disconnector would catch on the lip of the hammer, and when I pushed the trigger forward, it would slip off and the hammer, which would then rotate forward and would be cocked normally

Are your springs installed correctly... Should look like this...

 

[PortRoyalDad]

Certainly sounds like a defective J-Spring

I had the exact same symptoms you have been describing throughout your posts.

I noticed that my hammer's pivot pin merely took only a small amount of pressure from my index finger to press in and out; however (as a comparison), in order to remove the hammer pivot pin in my AR-15 required pressure from a center punch and a light tap from a rubber mallet.

It turned out that the J-Spring inside my 15-22's hammer was lose enough to not properly hold in place the hammer's pivot pin. The center groove on the pivot pin is captured by the J-Spring, which is what's supposed to hold it in place, preventing the pin from walking out.

Anyway, since my rifle was new and covered under warranty, I had no issues at all sending it back to S&W for repairs…which they did without any trouble. Even though I was without the rifle for a short time, the repair didn't cost me a dime.

Best Regards, Mike

 

[DoItRtOrNtAll]

Okay so after inspecting everything an pushing the pin in and feeling it lock, I decided to reassemble everything. Once I had it reassembled, I pushed the hammer back, so the disconnector locked on it, once I released the trigger it would slip off and the hammer would be ready to fire, after trying it several times, I could not reduplicate the issue. I'm going to try to get out this week and run another 50-100 rds to see if it acts up again, at which point if it does, I will contact S&W and send it in. I'm hoping there was just some crud keeping some tension on a spring or on the lip of ither the hammer or disconnector.
Thanks for all the help gentlemen. This forum is awesome!