My Trophy Gun Thesis gets noticed

[RM Vivas]

If you won't be able to make the symposium.. Have you considered an article for the "JOURNAL"????
JIM...................

Oh yes! I'm working on a piece on NYCPD Victory revolvers that will list about 950 by serial number and list their date of sale and t whom they were sold.

I have a short piece on NYCPD 2 inch Model 10's (about 400 pieces) with similar data.

Ditto the outline for a piece on PoliceWomens Bureau guns.

Lots of stuff under construction right now.

 

[ladder13]

Outstanding, Robert, Congratulations.

 

[oink]

Congratulations!

A question. Were the guns awarded for firearms proficiency or for outstanding proficiency in training overall?

 

[pawncop]

Well done sir, well done indeed.

 

[huthike]

Congratulations! Very well done!

 

[RM Vivas]

Congratulations!

A question. Were the guns awarded for firearms proficiency or for outstanding proficiency in training overall?

Bloomingdale Trophy - Highest overall average
Police Commissioners Trophy - 2nd highest overall average
Chief Inspectors Trophy - 3rd highest overall acerage
Mayors Trophy - Best act of police work while still in training
Hershfield Trophy - Best score in physical training
Masback Trophy - marksmanship
Kelrick Trophy - Most deserving Poliocewoman
Celia Relin Trophy - same as Kelrick, only awarded a few times
Keeler Trophy - Dont recall. Only awarded a couple times.

 

[TheHobbyist]

OP, I think it was Steve Jobs that said: "What would you do if you had no fear." Very cool. It is great that you are paying it forward; history does not get the donations (and sciences, et cetera) as sports, for example.

 

[Zarr]

I look forward to reading more in the SWCA Journal! Well done!

 

[mikepriwer]

Robert

Congratulations on winning, and hope you do well in your graduate studies.

I have two questions regarding the data. First, is it possible to discern where, in the progression of promotions, winning a trophy is the most significant? Ie, in terms of promotion to CPT and above, is it more important to win while at the patrolman level, or at the DET level, for example? Second, which of the five levels has the highest percentage of trophy winners, winning while at that level? Ie, do patrolman win more trophy's than detectives? This might be synonymous with asking which of the five levels has the best shooters?

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[RM Vivas]

Robert

Congratulations on winning, and hope you do well in your graduate studies.

I have two questions regarding the data. First, is it possible to discern where, in the progression of promotions, winning a trophy is the most significant? Ie, in terms of promotion to CPT and above, is it more important to win while at the patrolman level, or at the DET level, for example? Second, which of the five levels has the highest percentage of trophy winners, winning while at that level? Ie, do patrolman win more trophy's than detectives? This might be synonymous with asking which of the five levels has the best shooters?

Regards, Mike Priwer

Absolutely excellent question.

The ranks of SGT, LT and CPT were based on civil service exams. A Trophy Gun (and certain other awards) granted a recipient a few extra points on that civil service exam.

Once you get above CPT promotions were based on appointment. While one was supposed to receive appointment on merit, undoubtedly there was a 'who you know' element.

I think Trophy Guns were most useful in getting a man up from PTLMN to one of the civil service exam ranks simply because if there were 75 SGT slots open and you scored the 80th position, the 'bonus points' might have bumped you up to the 74th position and you squeak by.

At the higher levels, I think that the Trophy Gun contributed less materially (no points were needed) but added to the cachet of a mans reputation/career biography.

These are just my opinions. Your mileage may vary.

Enough people have asked me about this that I have been meaning to go back and re-evaluate the ranks attained. The problem is the department manning charts lump CPT and above as a single catagory. Even if I broke down the actual numbers of Deputy Inspectors, Inspectors, Deputy Chief Inspectors, etc. I'd have nothing to compare them to because the manning charts cut off at CPT.

RM Vivas

 

[mikepriwer]

Robert

Thanks for the response, and the insights.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[John Patrick]

Congrats on your submission and victory!

 

[mrcvs]

You never said what you might do now. Are you a professor in history at a university?

 

[RM Vivas]

You never said what you might do now. Are you a professor in history at a university?

No, although the Mrs wants me to do that.

I'm wrapping up a BA in history now and then I'd like to start a Masters in history.

My purpose in doing so is simply for my own enjoyment.

I look at all the folks who write about firearms (Supica, Wilson, Nahaus, Brophy, Jinks, Ruth, Pate, Canfield) and none are classically trained historians.

They all produce exceptional product and I thought that if I were to be a classically trained historian, the quality of my research and writing might improve and perhaps I could bring a more academic quality to the field of firearms history.

 

[RM Vivas]

The planets align, the clouds part, a light beans down from the heavens

RM
I knew you could do it!!!!!!!
Have you thought about doing it at the Annual in Concord, NC this June?

My circumstances have changed. With a great deal of prompting from my remarkably (surprisingly?) supportive spouse, I'm looking into attending NC next month.

I've reached out Mike SPEERS to see if it's still possible. The hotel cutoff date was a couple days ago, but..........

The speakers have all been booked by now of course, but IF IF IF this comes together, I'll bring copies of my NYCPD records and anyone who has a suspected NYPD gun can spelunk through them.

Been quite some time since I attended one of these things.

 

[first-model]

My circumstances have changed. With a great deal of prompting from my remarkably (surprisingly?) supportive spouse, I'm looking into attending NC next month.

VERY much looking forward to meeting you!

Mike

 

[dewidmt]

Another for you

I know I'm late to the party (congratulations on your thesis, BTW), but I picked this one up at a local gun show this past weekend in Southern Indiana. I have no information on the gun and the box does not appear original to the gun.

 

[Truckman]

First time I've seen this thread...Belated and well-deserved congrats!......Ben

 

[murphydog]

I know I'm late to the party (congratulations on your thesis, BTW), but I picked this one up at a local gun show this past weekend in Southern Indiana. I have no information on the gun and the box does not appear original to the gun.

And here is the post with more details:

1940 "Mayors Trophy" M&P