My two revolvers picky about coated bullets....

[1sailor]

I was pretty amazed by the $93 price per thousand mentioned in response #18 for Montana Gold JHP bullets. At that price, why use anything else. I quickly went to their site but I was a little disappointed to find it wasn't quite a fair comparison. To get that price you have to buy full cases at about $350 per (plus shipping). So it is an extremely good price but only when you buy cases. If you buy them 1000 at a time the price is $138 (plus shipping). By comparison, 1000 SNS coated bullets would cost $83 per thousand, delivered.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

I feel the only thing the knurled ring on Xtreme's bullets is useful for is a reference seating point. I taper crimp all my plated bullets.

The 9.0gr/Unique load you mentioned is the best grouping charge weight (of Unique) I've tried with the Xtreme 240gr RNFP bullets in my 5" 629-6.

I only have jump crimp issues with plated bullets if I fire them in a lightweight Sc frame revolver (329PD, 325TR, 327TRR8, etc.), not the all Ss ones.

I was a big proponent of Xtreme bullets for a long time but in mid-2015 I got a bad batch of their 240gr .44's. The ones before, & after, were fine but those leaded. However I didn't start to use them, & find the problem, until mid-2017. After (4) months of back & forth I gave up.

Then earlier this year Xtreme wouldn't/didn't honor the Cabela's brass rebate for their bullets. Never got my 10mm brass even though they told me twice they'd take care of it.

I've switched to Rainier for plated bullets & ZERO for jacketed. No more Xtreme for me.

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That's what gas checked were made for but they're too expensive for moderate loads, IMO, even if you make your own from 2nds. [emoji14]

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I'll second that Rainier. I bought 1k to try out from midway usa. 240 gr hollow tips. They are very good! Although they have a funky tip to them...
I'm really liking the bayou bullets 215gr for specials right now. For those I like Bullseye (5g.or .53 disk) One big fat hole it makes!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[jtcarm]

How well do the bullets fit the chamber throats? They should push through with a little effort.

Cast bullet performance is all about fit. If you’re seeing leading with coated bullets, my guess would be tight chamber throats swaging them down.

I’d give a couple of bullets the smash test with a hammer. If the coating comes off, I’d have a talk with the manufacturer.

You could also try recutting the forcing cone. IDK how much the 11-degree angle helps, but when I did some of my guns, I found a couple where the cone wasn’t square to the rifling.

BTW, S&Ws rifling is pretty pure. I seriously doubt it’s an issue, and lapping would probably be a wasted effort.

 

[dogdoc]

I do not really know how true it is but it is always claimed jacketed bullets wear barrels much faster. With modern steels, it may irrelevant and not mean anything in practical terms. Maybe years ago? Anyway that could be reason to use cast or coated bullets

 

[S&WIowegan]

I do not really know how true it is but it is always claimed jacketed bullets wear barrels much faster. With modern steels, it may irrelevant and not mean anything in practical terms. Maybe years ago? Anyway that could be reason to use cast or coated bullets

It's true; I shot a 625-2, 5" bbl. in USPSA competition for 15 to 25 yrs. about 2 or 3 Matches per month. Virtually all ammo was hardball. I noticed during some chrono sessions that my 4" 625 was giving higher velocities than the old 5". This was not the case in the beginning years ago. About the same time, a friend chronoed minor power factor with his old 25-2 after many years of campaigning.

I retired my old 625 to a place of honor in the back of my safe.

 

[jaymoore]

I do not really know how true it is but it is always claimed jacketed bullets wear barrels much faster. With modern steels, it may irrelevant and not mean anything in practical terms. Maybe years ago? Anyway that could be reason to use cast or coated bullets

I have also found that jacketed bullet loads do take their toll on barrels. But it could have more to do with the powder and power typical with their use. Had one 686 degrade in long range (100yd) accuracy (IHMSA Field Pistol Any Sight) very noticeably after a couple of thousand JSP .357 rounds had been though it. All of the same particularly accurate lot of MagTech 158gr JSPs. (Of which I still have some years later. Good accuracy test ammo!)

Another 686 that got run hard for a number of years up close in IDPA and on steel plates using 130gr RN FMJs of various brands almost exclusively has it's forcing cone about twice as long as when it was new. Given that that 4" revolver is rarely used past 25yds, it's still got game, though.

My non-jacketed bullet pitching .44 mags have many thousands of rounds through them with virtually no forcing cone or barrel wear. With slow burning stick powders, even the usual edge rounding of the forcing cone entry is about nil! Very happy about that, as it's one less thing to worry about in high usage competition guns.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Can't say anything about coated bullets - never tried them.

I can speak about hard cast, it's all I make and shoot.

In .357 I used to get leading with .357 sized and lubed bullets, so I went to .358 sizing die and the leading stopped completely. Counter intuitive, but factual.

In 44, I size them to .431 because I also shoot them in a Marlin lever, and in 45 I size them to .453 and .452 depending on the use.

Leading is gone.

Also I use White Label BAC lube, it makes a difference.

 

[fortyshooter]

My cylinder throats seem to be fine on the M69 with the coated bullets just being able to slide thru with very light push and no scrapping of the coating. On my 629-2E they slide right in just as with my Ruger SBH.
I was surprised that the 629 didn't shoot them clean either thinking it was just something with my new M69.

 

[DennisE]

No problems with Missouri coated 240 gr bullets in my S&W 69 2.7" or in my Ruger Super Blackhawk 4 5/8".

 

[dswancutt]

I have mixed results with coated bullets and S&W revolvers. My 625-4 (and my M&P45) shoot coated bullets without any leading. However, my 986 leads terribly. I also have a problem with leading at the end of the barrel with my M&P9L, but I think this might be a problem with not enough case flair/overcrimping the bullets on my part.
All my other older S&W revolvers shoot coated without a problem.

 

[muddocktor]

I was pretty amazed by the $93 price per thousand mentioned in response #18 for Montana Gold JHP bullets. At that price, why use anything else. I quickly went to their site but I was a little disappointed to find it wasn't quite a fair comparison. To get that price you have to buy full cases at about $350 per (plus shipping). So it is an extremely good price but only when you buy cases. If you buy them 1000 at a time the price is $138 (plus shipping). By comparison, 1000 SNS coated bullets would cost $83 per thousand, delivered.

Yeah, I had seen posts about Montana Gold bullets being a good value, but not for the quantity I usually buy at one time. But, I've been buying Zero bullets from Roze Distribution for a pretty good price. Their 125 grain JHP is $99.75/1000 shipped and I usually buy the 158 grain JHP for $95.55/1000 in 2000 quantity lots, shipped. I've also used their 147 grain 9MM bullets and like them and also their 240 JSP bullets for 44 Mag and so far they seem to be a good deal too.

EDIT: I also use their 230 grain FMJ bullets for shooting in my 1911 (45 Auto) and they make a good load too.

 

[Forrest r]

There's only 2 things both your 44cal revolvers have in common with your leading issue.

The bullet
The reloading dies

The only way to get leading with a coated bullet is if the coating is scrapped off.

Take your thumb nail and see if you can scrape the coating off 2 or 3 bullets easily. Also do a "smash" test on them with a hammer flattening them. After flattening them try to take the coating off.

If the bullets pass the smash test try loading 4 or 5 bullets in the cases you're using and then pull them and look for scrapped coating. Any bare lead showing is not a good thing.

FWIW:
Coated bullets cast out of 8/9bhn range scrap.

The bullet on the left is a .301" paper patch bullet that I pc's and ran it up thru a bump die. The bullet on the right started out as a lee 230gr blackout bullet that had a long pointed nose and a boattail. Now it has a short nose & a gas check base. This gives you an idea of how much you can bend a coated bullet out of shape and the coating stays intact.

I was testing bullets in a 308w, more specifically the alloys. Was looking for a hunting alloy where the bullet would bend not shatter. These are some of the recovered bullets.

That 2300fps bullet that bent is the lee bullet that was ran thru a bump die. Look up reloading data for a 230gr bullet in 308w you'll find that it took a 50,000psi load to get that bullet to do 2300fps.

Why all this?
Because I can take a coated bullet & twist/bend/swage it into something completely different. Then stuff it in a case full of powder and run it at 2300fps with a 50,000spi load and not have any leading issues.
You're taking a as is bullet with a 20,000+/-psi load and getting leading in 2 different firearms.

It's either bad coating or incorrect reloading practices. Reloading coated bullets is a lot different than reloading jacketed or plated bullets. Reloading lead bullets is close but not quite the same.

Pull a couple bullets and see what you have.

 

[moosedog]

I've been shooting cast bullets since 1973 in handguns and some rifles and have never had a leading problem. I've used my cast and commercial cast but have never tried the coated ones. Glad I never have, sounds like a solution for a problem that might not exist.

 

[fortyshooter]

Well I make sure there is no burrs around the case mouth and a nice flare or bell from the Dillon powder dump die.
They shoot clean as can be from my Ruger SBH which is .44 Mag. so don't think it's a bullet coating or reload issue.
Could be something with forcing cone...but on 2 S&W revolvers one made in 1989 and the other in 2018?

I'm going to load up some .44 Specials for my Charter Arms Bulldog using same coated bullets and see what happens there.

 

[1sailor]

Well if nothing else everyone's results here are at least confusing. We have several responders (myself included) who have fired thousands of coated rounds each with no leading at all. And we have others who seem to be getting copious amounts of leading using coated bullets. We even have one responder who has never tried them but is pretty certain they are useless. Not sure why the mixed results but for me it's been no leading, almost no smoke, and no bullet deliveries with half the wax missing from the bullets. The prices quoted for the Zero bullets seems pretty good but I can't find anywhere regarding expansion with their hollow points. Are they designed to expand or are they intended only as plinkers.

 

[fredj338]

If the coating is sound then I would be looking at the barrel for roughness. It only takes on spot to remove some coating & it will lead. Lapping is a good idea or shooting several 1000 jacketed, not plated, then clean & try the coated lead.

 

[Mikeinkaty]

Are you sizing the bullets before or after you powder coat them? I always size after.

 

[Mikeinkaty]

I too have shot 1000’s and no leading. Nada! Cleaning the barrels is a breeze. I always size after applying the coating.

 

[forgedsteelshooter]

.44 coated bullets

Dear fortyshooter, my buddy and I get the opposite results. 240gr. moly coated SWC's from Standard Bullet Co. shoot very well from my 6.5'' S&W mod. 24-3 out of Starline .44Spl. nickeled cases pushed by 5.4grs. of Trail Boss. Same ammo is all over the paper from my friend's 7.5'' Ruger Redhawk, but switch to same bullet UNCOATED and his Ruger groups are WAY tighter. Go figure.

 

[moongoon]

I have been using Chey-Hard cast bullets w/hi-tek coating, in 9mm, .38, and .429 for a while with very good results in a wide variety of guns. No leading problems, just keep velocity under 1100 fps. Much cleaner than plain lead and less smoke because there is no extra lube on them. I also have some of their .401 180 grain for my Glocks I have not tried yet. They are advertised to work OK in polygonal barrels. We shall see.