RobertJ.
Member
"Slapped the bang switch"??
So, "I fired the weapon" isn't hip enough anymore?
So, "I fired the weapon" isn't hip enough anymore?
Near Catastrophic failure with the Shield...
- Thread starter EnticeTheMalice
- Start date
In query of an earlier post, will the Shield fire out of battery?
Will the Shield fire out of battery?
I believe so, based on the early issues I had. The first trip back to the factory was based on a similar issue that I caught before a real problem.
Symptom was that the slide would not quite go into battery. We're talking 1/32 inch, maybe. I had several cases where I had to give it a push. But at the same time I realized that pulling the trigger would advance the side and fire the round.
Happened once, and I decided once was enough. There was no "kaboom", but just the thought of something else getting me before the cancer does riled me a bit. It went back the next day.
I believe so, based on the early issues I had. The first trip back to the factory was based on a similar issue that I caught before a real problem.
Symptom was that the slide would not quite go into battery. We're talking 1/32 inch, maybe. I had several cases where I had to give it a push. But at the same time I realized that pulling the trigger would advance the side and fire the round.
Happened once, and I decided once was enough. There was no "kaboom", but just the thought of something else getting me before the cancer does riled me a bit. It went back the next day.
CatSnipah
Member
It happened because of remanufactured ammo. Not the gun.
When freedom munitions sells new 1000 rounds for $202, and you cheap out and pay $194 for reloads instead...
Is your shield worth that extra 8 dollars?
Not suggesting you are wrong, but If you believe that it is only limited to reman, then I suggest a quick google search and a bit of reading.
Plenty of stories out there where brand new rounds had blowout failures.
Rastoff
US Veteran
scooter123,
I appreciate your analysis, but I think it is not correct. For it to happen as you and RalphMP9FS say, the round would actually have to protrude from the chamber. The M&P line stay locked up for that 1/8" travel you mention. So, a round cannot protrude. Then if the slide has moved that far, the sear is no longer engaged with the sear. Thus it won't fire.
Further, if the gun were this defective, it would have done this much earlier and with several rounds not just this one.
Call S&W and explain the problem.
They will tell you to send them the gun and damaged casing for inspection.
If you don't send them either, they won't send you anything.
If you send in just the gun, you will get it back with a statement that nothing is wrong with it.
If you send them the casing, they will claim it was an over pressured round.
This is not new. We've seen this before. If you want to head down the path of, "I'm not sending my evidence for a potential law suit" then you simply won't get anything from S&W until you win that law suit. The suit will cost many thousands of dollars and you might even win. At that point S&W will give you a new $300 gun. Do you think that's a prudent path?
I appreciate your analysis, but I think it is not correct. For it to happen as you and RalphMP9FS say, the round would actually have to protrude from the chamber. The M&P line stay locked up for that 1/8" travel you mention. So, a round cannot protrude. Then if the slide has moved that far, the sear is no longer engaged with the sear. Thus it won't fire.
Further, if the gun were this defective, it would have done this much earlier and with several rounds not just this one.
It's certainly worth checking with S&W, but this won't happen. What will happen is this:
Call S&W and explain the problem.
They will tell you to send them the gun and damaged casing for inspection.
If you don't send them either, they won't send you anything.
If you send in just the gun, you will get it back with a statement that nothing is wrong with it.
If you send them the casing, they will claim it was an over pressured round.
This is not new. We've seen this before. If you want to head down the path of, "I'm not sending my evidence for a potential law suit" then you simply won't get anything from S&W until you win that law suit. The suit will cost many thousands of dollars and you might even win. At that point S&W will give you a new $300 gun. Do you think that's a prudent path?
Stil a little fuzzy, even with Rastoff's reply: So, to be absolutely clear, if the action is not locked up, you can pull the trigger and make the striker work? How far out of battery before it won't fire?
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Rastoff
US Veteran
Don't take our word for it. Try it yourself.
With an unloaded gun, pointed in a safe direction, move the slide back a little and see if pulling the trigger will release the sear. Move it 1/32", pull the trigger, then 1/16", pull the trigger and so forth. You will find that the barrel is still locked up when the trigger is no longer releasing the sear.
This is inherent in the design. If the gun were so flawed that it could fire out of battery, by pulling the trigger, it wouldn't work anyway.
Now, the gun, any gun, can fire out of battery, but only through some other means than pulling the trigger. A piece of debris could get between the breech face and the round being chambered. The striker could be broken and protruding while the round is chambered. I'm sure we could come up with other ways, but in all those cases, the gun would be inoperable afterward. That is not the case here.
I don't think this was an out of battery ignition.
bronconagurski
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Uh, if I remember correctly, so-called reputable ammo companies were involved with some kabooms here, according to S&W, so what's your point? Seems like it's all a **** shoot.
That makes more sense. The actual short answer to my question is "No."
Had the same thing happen with a Sigma a couple of years ago. Someone gave me a box of Brand X reman ammo. The case looked the same. Much commotion, and the mag was blown partially out of the gun.
I field stripped the gun, looked it over well; no other damage. Fired another mag or two of different loads through it ok.
The mfr wasn't overly concerned when I called. I forget their name now, but shooting ANYONE else's reloads is a bad idea, period.
I don't buy the OOB thesis. That said, I've never had one with tons of new factory ammo or 50 plus years of my own reloads.
I field stripped the gun, looked it over well; no other damage. Fired another mag or two of different loads through it ok.
The mfr wasn't overly concerned when I called. I forget their name now, but shooting ANYONE else's reloads is a bad idea, period.
I don't buy the OOB thesis. That said, I've never had one with tons of new factory ammo or 50 plus years of my own reloads.
Here's my Shield barrel with a FM 124gr reload in it. I picked out a WIN case too. Note how much (or how little) of the case is exposed by the ramp. Now compare to the case from the OP.
I then tried to get mine to fire (DRY fire) OOB. By OOB I mean that the barrel hood began to unlock. It wouldn't. There's a very short distance the slide will travel rearward and still fire, but the barrel is still fully locked. One the hood began to move, it no longer fired.
I then tried to get mine to fire (DRY fire) OOB. By OOB I mean that the barrel hood began to unlock. It wouldn't. There's a very short distance the slide will travel rearward and still fire, but the barrel is still fully locked. One the hood began to move, it no longer fired.
I always check reloads that I purchase from LAX, usually only get 38 doc or 357 mag reloads. I check the rounds and trash any with suspect looking brass. It usually results in about 10-15 per 500 getting trashed.
OP
EnticeTheMalice
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Yeah but "Slapped the bang switch" Sounds so much more tier one internet operator bad ***.
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OP
EnticeTheMalice
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Alright, I cleared the weapon and the following pics show the position of the slide at the point the sear will still engage the striker. If the slide position is any farther back the sear won't engage the striker. The barrel is still locked up in this position. I do have an apex sear installed so I don't know if a Shield with a factory sear will fire in this slide position. I should note that I've had around 500rds through it on the apex sear and 500 through prior to installing the sear. Excuse the lint, I do clean my guns. I pocket carried this morning and got some fuzz on it.
Pics of slide in normal position.
Pics of slide in normal position.
A detail you failed to mention earlier. Who installed it?
