7shooter
Member
Carry in bars is legal in MN at least it is now. The legislature is in session so we all are holding our breath.
Need help choosing a CC gun for my daughter
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Carry in bars is legal in MN at least it is now. The legislature is in session so we all are holding our breath.
elm_creek_smith
US Veteran
Let her choose her carry gun. My younger daughter carries a high-cap 9mm compact, but my wife appropriated my 4 inch Model 681 with Crimson Trace grips.
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chief63
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Agree. My wife and daughter prefer the 640 over the airweights.
photoman
Member
I would, but only given certain conditions. A three finger, rubber grip like the Uncle Mike's combat grip is a must. Also, tell her to use only standard pressure ammo as all of the +P ammo, shot in that gun, will have excessive recoil that will hinder good shooting. Some people can handle the +P ammo in Airweights, but not many.
jwk
Member
Picking out a gun for someone else is a lot like trying to buy them a pair of shoes when you don't even know what size they wear.
Here are some considerations:
1. How big is your daughter physically? My wife is 5' 100lbs with small hands even for a person of her size. She carries in a Beltster belt with built in holster Her CCWs are a S&W 3" alloy J frame with the old style pencil barrel in 38 Special and a Walter PP in 32ACP. We also tried a Kel Tec for her but she didn't warm up to it. My former wife who was only a bit bigger used a S&W 681 as a CCW but her fingers were as long as mine. Admittedly wife number 1 carried in her purse as there wasn't a gun belt made that fit into her idea of fashion. Obviously a big difference for not a lot of size difference between these two ladies.
2. How is she going to carry or is she going to actually carry at all? If she is actually going to carry on body weight is more of a factor. If she is going to bury the gun in her purse, weight isn't nearly as big of an issue. This also goes to size as well.
3. How is her grip strength? Can she comfortably rack the slide on an autoloader?
4. How often is she going to shoot? If she gets into shooting, an autoloader may make sense. If she is only going to shoot when you drag her to the range, you want a revolver with its less complicated loading, unloading, making safe and firing procedures. Be honest in your appraisal of what is going to happen, not what you want to have happen.
If you have to have a general recommendation, go with a steel frame revolver. I like Bodyguards. That gives her the option of being able to thumb back the hammer both for an easier shot and a deterrent. The sound of a hammer cocking won't do as much as a sound of a shotgun being racked but it is unbelievably loud when a revolver is pointed in your direction. Another option is a M60. I have a 3" chambered in .357 with adjustable sights that I have carried quite a bit. While this is the S&W forum, I also like Ruger SP101s. The steel frame guns weigh more but recoil is less. 38+P in an alloy J frame aren't comfortable to shoot even for someone who shoots a lot as a general rule. While I realize you can practice with target wadcutters and keep recoil down, sooner or later she has to shoot some real deal ammo to know what she has in her hand and where it hits. If your daughter is not terribly petite (I'm not being rude but there is a heck of a difference in a lady who is 5' 100 lbs and one that is 5'8" and 125lbs, both of which are slender) you might want to look at a K frame S&W. I really like 3" barrel M65s. I don't particularly care for the 2.5" barrel M66 because the ejector rod won't give you a full stroke on a .357 round to absolutely clear the empties. That is a personal quirk of mine and a lot of S&W fans will probably howl at me. If your daughter is really interested in becoming a dedicated shooter, then in addition to the above, you can look at autoloaders.
S&W 3913s are good pistols, they are big enough to use, small and thin enough to carry. I'd avoid Glocks. Even the M19 is pretty much a full size gun which is harder for a small framed person to conceal. My wife can't make one work because of small hands even though she can run her Walter PP well. They are also fairly thick due to being double stack guns which makes them harder for a lady to conceal on her person. Keep in mind, you and I'll buy our pants a size or so larger to carry an auto IWB. We won't care if the seat is a little baggier than we need but I bet you never asked anyone if a particular pair of pants made your butt look big?
Finally regarding choices, I would avoid micro guns. Yep a derringer or a 5 shot mini revolver in .22 LR beats the heck out of no gun but they are hard to hit with past contact range.
I'd gather up some options from shooting buddies to let her shoot and see what she likes to shoot as opposed to what she likes to look at in the store or get her to a range with rental guns. If she has never shot before, get her out with a .22 and some range time before you even start the process.
Hope the analysis helps. Think about who and what your daughter is rather than thinking what is cool to you. That's hard to do sometimes. I have seen a lot of guys at gun counters trying to push what they want on the lady in their life not realizing what they were doing and not realizing that they weren't doing her any favors to buy her a gun that she couldn't make work because it was too big, recoiled too much etc.
Jim Keene
PS You're doing a good thing helping make sure your daughter has a higher level of security.
Here are some considerations:
1. How big is your daughter physically? My wife is 5' 100lbs with small hands even for a person of her size. She carries in a Beltster belt with built in holster Her CCWs are a S&W 3" alloy J frame with the old style pencil barrel in 38 Special and a Walter PP in 32ACP. We also tried a Kel Tec for her but she didn't warm up to it. My former wife who was only a bit bigger used a S&W 681 as a CCW but her fingers were as long as mine. Admittedly wife number 1 carried in her purse as there wasn't a gun belt made that fit into her idea of fashion. Obviously a big difference for not a lot of size difference between these two ladies.
2. How is she going to carry or is she going to actually carry at all? If she is actually going to carry on body weight is more of a factor. If she is going to bury the gun in her purse, weight isn't nearly as big of an issue. This also goes to size as well.
3. How is her grip strength? Can she comfortably rack the slide on an autoloader?
4. How often is she going to shoot? If she gets into shooting, an autoloader may make sense. If she is only going to shoot when you drag her to the range, you want a revolver with its less complicated loading, unloading, making safe and firing procedures. Be honest in your appraisal of what is going to happen, not what you want to have happen.
If you have to have a general recommendation, go with a steel frame revolver. I like Bodyguards. That gives her the option of being able to thumb back the hammer both for an easier shot and a deterrent. The sound of a hammer cocking won't do as much as a sound of a shotgun being racked but it is unbelievably loud when a revolver is pointed in your direction. Another option is a M60. I have a 3" chambered in .357 with adjustable sights that I have carried quite a bit. While this is the S&W forum, I also like Ruger SP101s. The steel frame guns weigh more but recoil is less. 38+P in an alloy J frame aren't comfortable to shoot even for someone who shoots a lot as a general rule. While I realize you can practice with target wadcutters and keep recoil down, sooner or later she has to shoot some real deal ammo to know what she has in her hand and where it hits. If your daughter is not terribly petite (I'm not being rude but there is a heck of a difference in a lady who is 5' 100 lbs and one that is 5'8" and 125lbs, both of which are slender) you might want to look at a K frame S&W. I really like 3" barrel M65s. I don't particularly care for the 2.5" barrel M66 because the ejector rod won't give you a full stroke on a .357 round to absolutely clear the empties. That is a personal quirk of mine and a lot of S&W fans will probably howl at me. If your daughter is really interested in becoming a dedicated shooter, then in addition to the above, you can look at autoloaders.
S&W 3913s are good pistols, they are big enough to use, small and thin enough to carry. I'd avoid Glocks. Even the M19 is pretty much a full size gun which is harder for a small framed person to conceal. My wife can't make one work because of small hands even though she can run her Walter PP well. They are also fairly thick due to being double stack guns which makes them harder for a lady to conceal on her person. Keep in mind, you and I'll buy our pants a size or so larger to carry an auto IWB. We won't care if the seat is a little baggier than we need but I bet you never asked anyone if a particular pair of pants made your butt look big?
Finally regarding choices, I would avoid micro guns. Yep a derringer or a 5 shot mini revolver in .22 LR beats the heck out of no gun but they are hard to hit with past contact range.
I'd gather up some options from shooting buddies to let her shoot and see what she likes to shoot as opposed to what she likes to look at in the store or get her to a range with rental guns. If she has never shot before, get her out with a .22 and some range time before you even start the process.
Hope the analysis helps. Think about who and what your daughter is rather than thinking what is cool to you. That's hard to do sometimes. I have seen a lot of guys at gun counters trying to push what they want on the lady in their life not realizing what they were doing and not realizing that they weren't doing her any favors to buy her a gun that she couldn't make work because it was too big, recoiled too much etc.
Jim Keene
PS You're doing a good thing helping make sure your daughter has a higher level of security.
jwk
Member
Looking at the original post and trying to answer that question which I didn't above, I like 642s. I carry one daily.
I have not had any finish problems other than normal carry wear. My first one got beat up a bit over several years of carry but no more than anything else carried daily. I carry is my jeans pocket w/o a holster and with nothing else in my pocket. On occasion, I carried it in a kydex IWB holster which is rough on any finish. There was nothing wrong with my 1st one when I traded it for a no lock model.
They do require more practice to shoot well. With high performance ammo the recoil is stout.
Personally I like the current production factory grips. That is a person to person thing however. Good news is there are a lot of J frame grip styles in the world.
Would I recommend one for my daughter? See my post above discussing helping women find an appropriate carry gun.
Jim Keene
I have not had any finish problems other than normal carry wear. My first one got beat up a bit over several years of carry but no more than anything else carried daily. I carry is my jeans pocket w/o a holster and with nothing else in my pocket. On occasion, I carried it in a kydex IWB holster which is rough on any finish. There was nothing wrong with my 1st one when I traded it for a no lock model.
They do require more practice to shoot well. With high performance ammo the recoil is stout.
Personally I like the current production factory grips. That is a person to person thing however. Good news is there are a lot of J frame grip styles in the world.
Would I recommend one for my daughter? See my post above discussing helping women find an appropriate carry gun.
Jim Keene
Fuego
Member
My wife has a used police trade-in S&W Model 10 with a 4" barrel. She shoots it very well.
After a bout of chemotherapy, she developed arthritis in her hands and has difficulty racking the slide of an automatic. The old Model 10 is great for her. She likes the size, the weight and the recoil with .38 Special 125 Gr. JHP ammo.
After a bout of chemotherapy, she developed arthritis in her hands and has difficulty racking the slide of an automatic. The old Model 10 is great for her. She likes the size, the weight and the recoil with .38 Special 125 Gr. JHP ammo.
MagnumForce44
Member
Here were my thoughts when picking a CCW with my girlfriend. I like the idea of an easy single action pull of a semi auto....but I dont like the possibility of the weapon jamming at an inopportune time for a novice shooter. And Murphy likes too hang around and screw with me so if it can happen it will. I recommended her 642 because its a revolver. It goes bang everytime. Bad primer? just squeeze the trigger again for the next round. No stripping, racking, clearing.... Just a solid S&W revolver with a stiff double action trigger pull that she dedicated herself to mastering along with speedloader training. She does fine with it.
On the other hand i tried to get my little sis into a J frame and it seemed her hand strength just wasnt going to cut it....in her case I suppose it might have to be a J with a trigger job, an exposed hammer gun, or a semi-auto and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! Haven't nailed one down for her yet.
If she can shoot it well...Go for it! As far as the finish...wouldn't worry about it. Its a tool. Ive seen some recently traded in that look like they have oxidized. I'd be willing to bet due to lack of proper care. If you wear it everyday in the waist band and sweat all over it, take it out and clean it once in awhile. Other than that....run it.
On the other hand i tried to get my little sis into a J frame and it seemed her hand strength just wasnt going to cut it....in her case I suppose it might have to be a J with a trigger job, an exposed hammer gun, or a semi-auto and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! Haven't nailed one down for her yet.
If she can shoot it well...Go for it! As far as the finish...wouldn't worry about it. Its a tool. Ive seen some recently traded in that look like they have oxidized. I'd be willing to bet due to lack of proper care. If you wear it everyday in the waist band and sweat all over it, take it out and clean it once in awhile. Other than that....run it.
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photoman
Member
Try the Apex spring kit before anything else. The kit does a great job of making the trigger pull much more manageable.
I agree with several other statements that have already been made in this thread. Revolvers are always a safe choice. That being said I see a lot of comments about a failure occurring at a bad time with a novice shooter and that is the reason that my recommendations as a woman are in this order:
3913/908 which ever you can find
4013
Revolver (my preference is the model 49)
Of course it is obvious that the list is the 3rd gens or a revolver! But I do carry a purse and all of the above work great in my purse along with any of my cs9, cs40 or cs45 but you may want to wait til a little further down the road for one of those for her.
The truth is she will only shoot and carry what she likes and what feels good to her so take her out on some father daughter outings and let it rip!
Charise
3913/908 which ever you can find
4013
Revolver (my preference is the model 49)
Of course it is obvious that the list is the 3rd gens or a revolver! But I do carry a purse and all of the above work great in my purse along with any of my cs9, cs40 or cs45 but you may want to wait til a little further down the road for one of those for her.
The truth is she will only shoot and carry what she likes and what feels good to her so take her out on some father daughter outings and let it rip!
Charise
NoBite
Member
You have received some wonderful, and thorough advice. I will be much more succinct. No, I do not think a 642 is a good choice for your daughter, or really for anyone, for a first gun. To wit, I have several revolvers and pistols that I let folks shoot when they are in the market for that first purchase. I have yet to meet the person that enjoys the 642 over a larger revolver or pistol! The 642 has many attributes as a concealed carry choice. I carry mine frequently. But, for a first gun? IMHO, no.
Why not? Recoil is subjective. But, the 642 is painful for many folks to shoot for training sessions. When you are just starting out, seems to me your first gun should be one you just can't wait to get out and shoot again! The sight radius is very short. Much more concentration is needed to achieve reasonable accuracy, especially for folks just getting interested in shooting.
If you can swing it, let her pick out something that really feels great. If her first gun isn't the most concealable, tiniest model, so what! Let her develop good habits and a degree of proficiency and a love of shooting. That is exactly how my wife went about it. Turns out she picked out an XDm-9 compact and later got a Shield.
Good luck. Have fun!
Sent using Tapatalk HD
Why not? Recoil is subjective. But, the 642 is painful for many folks to shoot for training sessions. When you are just starting out, seems to me your first gun should be one you just can't wait to get out and shoot again! The sight radius is very short. Much more concentration is needed to achieve reasonable accuracy, especially for folks just getting interested in shooting.
If you can swing it, let her pick out something that really feels great. If her first gun isn't the most concealable, tiniest model, so what! Let her develop good habits and a degree of proficiency and a love of shooting. That is exactly how my wife went about it. Turns out she picked out an XDm-9 compact and later got a Shield.
Good luck. Have fun!
Sent using Tapatalk HD
luangtom
US Veteran
Yup, find a range that rents various handguns and let the young lady pick the one she is comfortable with and then Dad can gift her with one just like it. In the years of classes where ladies were present when I helped instruct, most all of them said they appreciated the opportunity to fire the various purse-guns, carry-guns or whatever one wants to call them.
Good luck, Dad, and tell her to shoot safe.
Good luck, Dad, and tell her to shoot safe.
HotRoderX
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I just wanted to throw my card into the hat that your daughter need's to pick. I would not recommend a J-Frame for a newbie there not the easiest platform to learn. There recoil is a extremely steep learning curve for people who are recoil sensitive. I have a friend thats 6 foot tall 290lb male who cant put more then a cylinder thought my 637. Me I can put entire box of +P thought it with out flinching its not the most fun thing in the world but gives you a idea. I also find it extremely fun to shoot 357 magnum I am not very recoil sensitive. The other thing people tend to forget about revolvers is the DA trigger pull. I know on my gun it took me a lot to master double action shooting. In a self defense situation you most likely will not have the luxury of pulling back a hammer. These are some of the things to think about when it comes to a revolver. One thing I have learned is every thing in the guild world is a trade off most the time.
Really the best thing you can do for your daughter is take her to the range and give her a blank check. I am assuming her safety is priority and I dont blame you. Make sure to test out as many guns as you can if this is her first time shooting you might wanna start out with a 22lr. Obviously this is not the best choice for SD but from experience if you hand her something like a Kel-Tec PA3T she will fire it once maybe twice then walk away.
My buddy got one with out shooting it asked me if I take it to the range try it out with him. I put the first rounds thought it. When I handed it back to him with a bloody grip (because the texture on the pistol + the recoil took my skin off my hand). He cleaned it up traded it the next day with out ever shooting it.
Hopefully this helps you out and your daughter out. Good luck and keep us updated I like to know what she went with.
Really the best thing you can do for your daughter is take her to the range and give her a blank check. I am assuming her safety is priority and I dont blame you. Make sure to test out as many guns as you can if this is her first time shooting you might wanna start out with a 22lr. Obviously this is not the best choice for SD but from experience if you hand her something like a Kel-Tec PA3T she will fire it once maybe twice then walk away.
My buddy got one with out shooting it asked me if I take it to the range try it out with him. I put the first rounds thought it. When I handed it back to him with a bloody grip (because the texture on the pistol + the recoil took my skin off my hand). He cleaned it up traded it the next day with out ever shooting it.
Hopefully this helps you out and your daughter out. Good luck and keep us updated I like to know what she went with.
corvino
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Looking for a gun for my daughter and would like to know about this one (S@W Airweight 642) anyone know anything about this gun? Would you recommend this for your daughter? I know its all-aluminum and there have been some issues with it concerning the finish. Can someone fill me in on this?
thanks
I'd go with the shield in 9mm.
Great ergonomics and reliable gun. I dont think she'd be disappointed!
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dbl barrel
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i agree with letting her try several different firearms and pick the one she likes/shoots/handles best. My wife was carrying 642 but I let her try my 640 and she could handle the recoil better. My daughter wanted a semi auto so I let her have a Glock 23 of mine. She could shoot it ok but wanted something different I had. She now has a Smith and Wesson 5906 guess I am now short two guns.
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