Need help identifying a S&W HE .38 SPC...

[bjornolf]

I'm trying to help someone identify a Smith & Wesson hand ejector revolver, and I'm stymied. It's a .38 Special, 6" tapered, pinned barrel, blued. 5 screw, 6 shot. It has the Made in USA, Marcas Registradas, Smith and Wesson, Springfield Mass four line address. It has the later style no diamond magna grips, but they are not marked inside, so they are probably not original. It has the post 1920s style, non-mushroomed extractor rod. Inside the yoke cutout is M over 95480 over 3, no MOD. Service sights with half moon front blade with a notch cut out. Logo is on sideplate. Square butt, short throw hammer. No lanyard ring or hole. So, everything points to postwar pre-model 10, right? Late 1948 through mid 1950s, right?
Here's the weird part. Serial number on butt is US 21939. On barrel underside is 21939. So, what do we have? Only reference I can find to US on butt is early WWII, but this gun can't be that, plus serial number is wrong for that. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[DWalt]

I'm waiting for an answer on this. For the indicated time period, the serial number for an M&P (assuming that it is an M&P) should have a "C" prefix. I haven't heard of a "US" prefix. That one might be worth a factory letter if no one knows.

 

[Art Doc]

Can you post a clear photo?

Is the number also under the barrel & on rear of cylinder?

The original number may have been removed and a made up serial stamped by whomever stole the gun (that is one possibility).

Could also be you are misreading the number. It does happen.

Without seeing it we can only guess.

 

[bjornolf]

Not the best I know, but it's what I have. As I said, number is also on underside of barrel w/o US. Standard Catalog 3rd mentions US on butt for early WWII, but as I said, this gun appears to be too late for that.

 

[bjornolf]

Could it be an early post war S number that some previous owner added a U on the front of?

 

[Combat]

That's a short action gun so it's at least from the fifties. Sn. has been ground off and restamped. Is there a Sn. anywhere else?

 

[DWalt]

Could it be an early post war S number that some previous owner added a U on the front of?

S prefix SNs did not begin until the low S 800000 range. So that cannot be. The butt stamping does not appear to have been done by S&W. It's on a slant, and numerals are too large. How about the SNs on the swing-out part of the yoke and behind the extractor star, in addition to those on the barrel and rear face of cylinder? Those two locations are difficult to read, but are the least likely to have been altered. It must be late 40's to mid-50's, therefore originally a C prefix. There should also have been the SN stamped on the back side of the right grip panel, without a letter prefix (assuming the grips have not been switched). Everything is pointing toward its being a contraband gun.

 

[Muley Gil]

Can you show a picture of the SN that is under the barrel?

Definitely, the SN on the butt was not stamped by the factory.

 

[Mike McLellan]

I like it. Contraband? Maybe. I'm thinking authorized (by who) re-stamp.

 

[bjornolf]

S prefix SNs did not begin until the low S 800000 range. So that cannot be. The butt stamping does not appear to have been done by S&W. It's on a slant, and numerals are too large. How about the SNs on the swing-out part of the yoke and behind the extractor star, in addition to those on the barrel and rear face of cylinder? Those two locations are difficult to read, but are the least likely to have been altered. It must be late 40's to mid-50's, therefore originally a C prefix. There should also have been the SN stamped on the back side of the right grip panel, without a letter prefix (assuming the grips have not been switched). Everything is pointing toward its being a contraband gun.

I figured that about S prefix, but one thing I know is that I don't know everything.

Grips are from post 1965 cause no diamond, and as I said, no number there. No cylinder number either. I'll try to get a pic of number on barrel.

 

[bjornolf]

That's a short action gun so it's at least from the fifties. Sn. has been ground off and restamped. Is there a Sn. anywhere else?

As I said, short hammer means post 1948, serial is on underside of barrel w/o US, but not on cylinder.

I'll ask about extractor star.

 

[DWalt]

Your picture above shows exactly how to read the SN on the yoke - just look down a chamber. You may need a flashlight, and the numbers are tiny. The fact that there is no SN on the rear face of the cylinder is highly suspicious.

 

[bjornolf]

Would there be a serial on it if it had been replaced?

 

[Texas Star]

The gun certainly has the short action, but does not have the squiggle hammer that S&W called the Speed Hammer. This hammer dates from at least the mid to late 1950's.
Does the frame have the usual Model 10 stamp? Swing out the cylinder and look at the frame.

If not, the gun probably dates from about 1955-57. If the stamp is present it cannot be from prior to 1957, prob. 1958.

Is there a trigger shoe on that trigger? Get it off. The trigger may rust under it and the things are an abomination, in my view.

The short ramp front sight and the shape of the hammer should have immediately told you the app. date the gun was made. Those features are very distinctive. Unless something has been changed, like the gun being re-barreled, it probably dates from no earlier than 1955, and probably later.

If there is a Model 10 stamp, if there is a suffix, like Model 10-5, that will narrow down when it was made. But I think your first post said no model number? (No Mod.)

 

[Texas Star]

Would there be a serial on it if it had been replaced?

On what; the yoke?

 

[bjornolf]

On what; the yoke?

No, cylinder face.

 

[bjornolf]

Here is hammer and under barrel.

 

[bjornolf]

The gun certainly has the short action, but does not have the squiggle hammer that S&W called the Speed Hammer. This hammer dates from at least the mid to late 1950's.
Does the frame have the usual Model 10 stamp? Swing out the cylinder and look at the frame.

If not, the gun probably dates from about 1955-57. If the stamp is present it cannot be from prior to 1957, prob. 1958.

Is there a trigger shoe on that trigger? Get it off. The trigger may rust under it and the things are an abomination, in my view.

The short ramp front sight and the shape of the hammer should have immediately told you the app. date the gun was made. Those features are very distinctive. Unless something has been changed, like the gun being re-barreled, it probably dates from no earlier than 1955, and probably later.

If there is a Model 10 stamp, if there is a suffix, like Model 10-5, that will narrow down when it was made. But I think your first post said no model number? (No Mod.)

Yea, no model number. I wasn't familiar with the short ramp though. When was that used?

Please see photo of hammer in post above. I thought that hammer started pre 1950.

 

[bjornolf]

Ah, ha! Number on yoke visible through charge hole is 336664. Hmm, so does that mean serial is C336664? That would make it, what, 1955? So, what should I tell the owner to do?

 

[Art Doc]

To me (not really any sort of expert) that revolver looks like a Model 10. That means I think it was made after 1957 when model numbers were applied. It has the front site and hammer usually seen after 1957.

The US21999 doesn't look like a proper S&W serial. The butt stamp does not look factory. The barrel stamp looks iffy to me as well.

At this point I can only make a wild guess.

Is there any possibility the gun was purchased by military or a clandestine agency (CIA, etc) and is "scrubbed" meaning it was made with no serial or it was removed? Perhaps the US21999 was added when it was sold as surplus or was added by a previous owner thinking it needed a number? Maybe it was supplied to a foreign government for covert operations?

Pretty wild speculation, but at this point I don't have any other suggestions.

BTW- I have a Mauser M98 that was made in 1955 for Israel and it has no markings other than a 4 digit number. I have heard the CIA kept guns that couldn't be traced. Who knows?