Need Help Identifying Gun

[MadritS]

I recently inherited a S&W .38 Special but can't seem to pinpoint the exact model that it is or year it was made. I'm attaching a picture to try and make this easier. The serial number is 623xx. The barrel is stamped with H.M.Pope. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I tried calling customer service at S&W but they are closed till the 15th.

 

[2152hq]

Looks like a pre-WW2 Hand Ejector Target 38Special. If the barrel is authentic to the stamping on it,,it's a custom made feature by a famous barrel maker,, Harry M (Melville?) Pope. Considered one of the finest custom bbl makers of his time. He was working from the late 1800's right up till some time just after WW2 IIRC.
Some others will come by and give much more info on the revolver.
An internet search on Pope will turn up lots of info.
A trigger stop has been added, perhaps by Pope, to attain a better trigger pull..

Interesting revolver!

 

[Dragon88]

I believe this is a .38 Military & Police Model of 1902 - 1st Change. Serial number would put it right at the end of the range for 1st change models, toward the end of 1904. I think the stocks with gold medallions are a couple decades later than the gun, however. Someone else will have to tell you about the H.M. Pope stamped barrel and sights.

Very nice old gun, bet it shoots well.

 

[s&wchad]

Welcome to the forum.
COOL revolver! I agree with the above comments, the gun has been modified for target shooting by a very well respected barrel maker. The barrel is definitely not S&W, the contour and lug shape is different. I've seen several custom target rifles with Pope barrels, never a pistol. The rifles command a premium.

I believe that style grip was used from 1910-1920. The marks on the frame make me think the gun had different grips on it for quite some time. Is the right grip panel serialized to the gun (inside)?

62,3XX is listed as 1905, but I wouldn't be surprised if it shipped latter. You should get a letter, but it won't describe that gun as it is now. I'll bet it's a great shooter, don’t put high velocity ammunition thru it.

 

[gdogs]

A little Pope history:

The Rifleman's Journal: History: Harry Pope

 

[mikepriwer]

The question of the guns identity rests on the 5th frame screw. If
there is a screw in front of the trigger guard, then collectors call this
a model of 1905. If not, then collectors call it a 1902 1st change.
Because of the square butt, some collectors refer to this as a
pre-1905. I can see the levering-rebound stud, so it has the early
lockwork. The only question is whether or not it has the redesigned
cylinder stop.

The barrel is definitely from Harry Pope. He was well-thought of, and
these guns command a definite premium, to collectors who care.

The grips are from 1910 to 1920, so are not original to the gun. That
is of little importance, however.

Mike Priwer

 

[MadritS]

Thanks. It really does shoot well. Very accurate. 5 shot grouping about the size of a quarter. And I am by no means a marksman.

I believe this is a .38 Military & Police Model of 1902 - 1st Change. Serial number would put it right at the end of the range for 1st change models, toward the end of 1904. I think the stocks with gold medallions are a couple decades later than the gun, however. Someone else will have to tell you about the H.M. Pope stamped barrel and sights.

Very nice old gun, bet it shoots well.

 

[MadritS]

Thanks. Nope, neither of the grips have a serial number.

I made sure before I shot it to do as much as research as possible and did come across a few mentions of making sure to not use high velocity ammo.

Welcome to the forum.
COOL revolver! I agree with the above comments, the gun has been modified for target shooting by a very well respected barrel maker. The barrel is definitely not S&W, the contour and lug shape is different. I've seen several custom target rifles with Pope barrels, never a pistol. The rifles command a premium.

I believe that style grip was used from 1910-1920. The marks on the frame make me think the gun had different grips on it for quite some time. Is the right grip panel serialized to the gun (inside)?

62,3XX is listed as 1905, but I wouldn't be surprised if it shipped latter. You should get a letter, but it won't describe that gun as it is now. I'll bet it's a great shooter, don’t put high velocity ammunition thru it.

 

[JSR III]

Welcome to the forum. That is a very neat old S&W and since it belonged to a family member should be a valued heirloom. Should you decide to remove the stocks to check for a serial number, be very careful to use the correct size blade screwdriver when you remove the screw. Damaging the screw will decrease the value.

To remove the stocks, loosen the screw and while it is still engaged in the opposite panel, give the screw a gentle tap with the right stock panel facing down and over a soft cloth. This will generally loosen the right stock panel from the frame enough to enable you to remove it. The left panel, if not all ready loose, can then be tapped through the frame on its inside to remove it from the frame. Stocks that have been on a gun for a long time are sometimes stuck to the frame by years of oil and gunk and sometimes need gentle persuasion. Work slowly and gently as you do not want to chip the wood.

Once the right panel is removed, check to see if there are any numbers either stamped or written on its inside surface. Usually, this is the serial number of the gun that the stocks were originally matched to. If the numbers match the numbers on the butt of your gun, that is great. If not, then it falls into the category of many S&W's out there with non matching stocks. Others have stated that the stocks in the photo are from a later time frame than your revolver and I will defer to their observations.

While you have the stocks off, give the frame a good cleaning with Hoppes or something similar and then a good coat of Renaissance wax if you have any. If not, a little oil should keep the frame from rusting under the stocks.

 

[MadritS]

Thanks for the info. As far as I can tell there are only 4 screws. See the attached pic. I'm not sure what a cylinder stop is. I can take more pics

The question of the guns identity rests on the 5th frame screw. If
there is a screw in front of the trigger guard, then collectors call this
a model of 1905. If not, then collectors call it a 1902 1st change.
Because of the square butt, some collectors refer to this as a
pre-1905. I can see the levering-rebound stud, so it has the early
lockwork. The only question is whether or not it has the redesigned
cylinder stop.

The barrel is definitely from Harry Pope. He was well-thought of, and
these guns command a definite premium, to collectors who care.

The grips are from 1910 to 1920, so are not original to the gun. That
is of little importance, however.

Mike Priwer

 

[MadritS]

Thanks so much for the info. I'm super careful with it. I already cleaned the !@#$% out of it. Wax is a great idea though. Back to the gun shop....

Welcome to the forum. That is a very neat old S&W and since it belonged to a family member should be a valued heirloom. Should you decide to remove the stocks to check for a serial number, be very careful to use the correct size blade screwdriver when you remove the screw. Damaging the screw will decrease the value.

To remove the stocks, loosen the screw and while it is still engaged in the opposite panel, give the screw a gentle tap with the right stock panel facing down and over a soft cloth. This will generally loosen the right stock panel from the frame enough to enable you to remove it. The left panel, if not all ready loose, can then be tapped through the frame on its inside to remove it from the frame. Stocks that have been on a gun for a long time are sometimes stuck to the frame by years of oil and gunk and sometimes need gentle persuasion. Work slowly and gently as you do not want to chip the wood.

Once the right panel is removed, check to see if there are any numbers either stamped or written on its inside surface. Usually, this is the serial number of the gun that the stocks were originally matched to. If the numbers match the numbers on the butt of your gun, that is great. If not, then it falls into the category of many S&W's out there with non matching stocks. Others have stated that the stocks in the photo are from a later time frame than your revolver and I will defer to their observations.

While you have the stocks off, give the frame a good cleaning with Hoppes or something similar and then a good coat of Renaissance wax if you have any. If not, a little oil should keep the frame from rusting under the stocks.

 

[DCWilson]

What a fine revolver! Is that an 8" barrel? Or maybe 8.5? If you have a chance, please measure from the muzzle to the face of the cylinder.

I love the early adjustable-sight hand ejectors, and this a great custom specimen.

 

[MadritS]

Yup, it's exactly 8 inches.

What a fine revolver! Is that an 8" barrel? Or maybe 8.5? If you have a chance, please measure from the muzzle to the face of the cylinder.

I love the early adjustable-sight hand ejectors, and this a great custom specimen.

 

[MadritS]

Thanks so much for that. That is extremely interesting. I couldn't have imagined this "old" gun has so much history in it. I'm dying to get the LOA from SW now to see if they have any more info about it.

A little Pope history:

The Rifleman's Journal: History: Harry Pope

 

[mikepriwer]

As to the fifth screw, look at the front of the trigger guard, where it
blends into the frame. If there is a screw there, you can't miss it.

As to the letter, the factory did not install Pope barrels. Harry Pope
did order guns directly from the factory, and then replaced the
barrels. That is one possibility. Another is that someone ordered
a gun with a Pope barrel, and the factory sent the gun to Pope for
the barrel, and then subsequently the factory sent the gun to the
person who ordered it. Or, they could have instructed Pope to ship it.
Third possibility is that an owner of the gun shipped it to Pope
for a barrel, in which case the records will not reflect Pope.

Either way, it is a piece that has a lot of following.

Mike Priwer

 

[MadritS]

Thanks. Looks like it only has 4 screws then because I do not see a fifth screw in front of the trigger guard.

As to the fifth screw, look at the front of the trigger guard, where it
blends into the frame. If there is a screw there, you can't miss it.

As to the letter, the factory did not install Pope barrels. Harry Pope
did order guns directly from the factory, and then replaced the
barrels. That is one possibility. Another is that someone ordered
a gun with a Pope barrel, and the factory sent the gun to Pope for
the barrel, and then subsequently the factory sent the gun to the
person who ordered it. Or, they could have instructed Pope to ship it.
Third possibility is that an owner of the gun shipped it to Pope
for a barrel, in which case the records will not reflect Pope.

Either way, it is a piece that has a lot of following.

Mike Priwer

 

[mikepriwer]

When you request a letter, make sure you state that it is a 4-screw
frame, with no screw in front of the trigger guard. That way, it will
letter as either a 1902 1st change, or a pre-1905. Also make sure
you state that it has a square butt. If you didn't do that, and have
sent for a letter, call the factory, ask for Roy Jinks, and tell him you
omitted some important information. Use my name, if you'd like.

Mike Priwer

 

[MadritS]

Thank you SOOOOOO much for all the help.

When you request a letter, make sure you state that it is a 4-screw
frame, with no screw in front of the trigger guard. That way, it will
letter as either a 1902 1st change, or a pre-1905. Also make sure
you state that it has a square butt. If you didn't do that, and have
sent for a letter, call the factory, ask for Roy Jinks, and tell him you
omitted some important information. Use my name, if you'd like.

Mike Priwer