Need Help Identifying

[narc766]

I recently acquired what I believe to be a S&W 1905 hand ejector (not sure which change) but there are some things with the gun that do not match up. First the serial number that is stamped on the butt is 157xx but the number that is on the back of the cylinder and under the barrel is 719. 719 is also stamped on the frame under the grips which are not original to the gun. The gun has some fairly nice engraving on it but I can not see where there was ever a S&W logo on the side plate. The gun has 5 screws, a knurled ejector rod, smooth trigger and no patent information on the barrel. I can faintly make out letters on top of the barrel but the engraving has covered it up. Last but not least 38 Long CTG is stamped on the left side of the barrel.
Any help would be greatly appreciated (I know pics would be helpful but I am having difficulty with getting them from camera to computer, to photobucket, to hear).
Thanks in Advance
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!

 

[glowe]

It is very difficult to help out without pictures, so I hope you can post a few.

I would think you have non-factory engraving. S&W would not destroy it's own stampings, so who knows when it might have been done.

If I am not mistaken, the Model of 1905 started with higher serial numbering.

 

[Muley Gil]

Sounds like a Spanish copy to me.

To the best of my knowledge, S&W never chambered a revolver for the .38 Long cartridge.

 

[Alk8944]

That revolver is a Spanish copy of a S&W, which is why there are no S&W marks on it. The only S&W revolvers chambered for .38 Long (Colt) were the very earliest Model 1899 Military and Police models made before development of the .38 S&W Special. The apparently post 1968 S&W stocks don't change this. The gun probably dates to the 1920s.

Note there is no strain screw on the front strap of the grip frame as S&Ws have. This is because the lockwork uses a "V" spring and rebound lever very much like Colt's, instead of the flat mainspring and rebound slide S&W used at the same time. This is only superficially a S&W and dies not directly correspond to any S&W model or change.

The 719 stamped on parts is an assembly number to identify the major parts that have been hand fit together.

Bet your barrel is about 4 3/8" and is marked: "AMERICAN BEST CARTRIDGES ARE THOSE THAT FIT BEST THE X.X.". There could be any of several letters represented by the XX, mine has O.V.

Look in the arch behind the trigger guard. You may see the marking "SPAIN" in very small letters there if it was imported or still in stock after the S&W lawsuit against the importers of these counterfeits, principally Galef as I recall.

This is the best S&W counterfeit I have ever seen, which is why I bought it. This one is a .32-20. In the first pic the cylinder stop screw really stands up, it isn't loose, just a very thick head. Here are some pictures.

 

[narc766]

I knew I could get the answer here. THANK YOU!!!

 

[Muley Gil]

Alk8944,

That is a nice looking copy. Have you shot it? One of my college roommates bought a Spanish .32-20 after he shot my Smith. Unfortunately, the chambers weren't shaped like a S&W chamber. The caes were almost blown out square.

When I went to the po-leece academy, we did a crime scene exercise where we recovered a "redhandled" gun. Everybody IDed it as a .38 S&W, except me. I took one look and said it was Spanish .32-20. Our instructor, a former cop, just grinned.

 

[Alk8944]

Alk8944,

That is a nice looking copy. Have you shot it? One of my college roommates bought a Spanish .32-20 after he shot my Smith. Unfortunately, the chambers weren't shaped like a S&W chamber. The caes were almost blown out square.

When I went to the po-leece academy, we did a crime scene exercise where we recovered a "redhandled" gun. Everybody IDed it as a .38 S&W, except me. I took one look and said it was Spanish .32-20. Our instructor, a former cop, just grinned.

This is really funny. When I picked it out of the drawer at the LGS I thought it was a S&W. I carried it out to the counter to buy it and really didn't see anything odd until I got it in good light. Then small details just snowballed. The first thing was the top rear corner of the frame was too square, like an early .32 HE. Then I started to look at it!!!! It was obvious what it was, but even after handling S&Ws for 50 years it didn't jump out at you as most do.

Yes, I have shot it. The chambers were actually too tight at the base, and none of my reloads would go in any chamber. Even new factory brass didn't even fall in. They would go to about 1/8" and then would have to be pushed the rest of the way and actually "snapped" in. The neck is a little large so little shoulder shows, but not by a lot. Basically the body has a little less taper than you would expect, but not enough to look odd.

The flash gap is wide enough to throw a cat through. Really not that bad, only .014, but it really runs slow over the chronograph.

End shake was enough that the cylinder touched the barrel. It took a .015 shim to get the end shake out of it. Once the end shake was taken care of then there wasn't sufficient headspace! Had to re-chamber to get the chambers open enough to be able to load for it and to clean up the rim cuts in the extractor so the gun would function with adequate headspace. Still had to polish the base of all charge holes about .001 so cases sized in my dies would chamber.

Overall quite a project. The up-side is it got me a .32-20 cylinder reamer to use on my Model 16 that I had bought in 1966 intending to make a .32-20 Target out of it. I had been putting off buying a reamer for 45 years, finally got it done.

Down-side? The Spaniard shoots so far off the sights it's hard to believe. At least it works now.

 

[handejector]

Press 1 for English.
Presione 2 para español.

 

[jimmyj]

Did the LGS have a party after you left with your purchase?

 

[Alk8944]

Did the LGS have a party after you left with your purchase?

No that I know of, but I was happy. I have been looking for a Spanish copy that wasn't a piece of junk for nearly 50 years!

 

[mikepriwer]

Another give-away is the marking of the serial number on the butt,
and that other number under the barrel and on the rear face of the
cylinder. The spacing of the butt serial number is way way too wide.
The factory never spaced serial number digits like that. The stamping
on the rear face of the cylinder, and under the barrel, is a font style
that was never used by the factory. Ie, it slants to the left.

Mike Priwer