Need help identifying

[coburnrkt]

Hey guys,

I just inherited a few revolvers and am struggling to identify one.

Hand ejector
180642 (?) the butt is a little rusty (though internals are fine!)
.45
5 screw
5 inch barrel
Adjustable sights

Its drilled for a butt swivel.

Any help would be appreciated. I'm going nuts trying to find this anywhere else online.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! It looks like a commercial model 1917 Target. But I'm looking at it on my smartphone and I need to see it on the big screen. Perhaps somebody else will come along and confirm it. Do the sights on the front say micro or King?

Guy

 

[Wiregrassguy]

The best I can do is tell you your gun was made between 1922 and 1928. If it is factory original, it is very rare...less than 5 produced. So, I suspect it is a King or Micro conversion of a Commercial Model 1917. An expert will be along soon and may be able to tell you more. An historian's letter will be required to validate it is original. The grips are from post-WWII and are not original to the gun.


BTW, measure the barrel again from the muzzle to the front of the cylinder.

 

[DWalt]

On my list is a commercial Model 1917, SN 180173, shown as shipping on 10/27/26 (a Target version). I have no pictures of that one for comparison to yours. The extractor rod knob design suggests pre-1928. There is no question that yours is a commercial 1917, but I suspect the target sights may have been added outside the factory somewhat later, as sights of that general appearance are usually not seen until post-WWII. King sights are usually stamped with their name, so you might check. S&W did sometimes send customer guns to King's (D. W. King, San Francisco) for custom sight work, but of course King would do work for anyone. Also there were target sight sources other than King's. As previously stated, the grips are much newer than the gun, probably from the late 1940s to early 1950s period, and may have been added around the same time as the sights. The trigger on yours is of the target style which were not supplied by S&W until the early 1950s. It's not unusual to see an earlier S&W revolver with a swapped-out target trigger.

 

[daddio202]

A very interesting 1917 you have there as it definately has been customized. Looks to me like it has a post war Target version trigger as well as the formentioned target sights. The front sight looks like a King front sight and the rear sight looks to be a pre war type. Close up pictures looking down on front and rear sight would help. I suppose a target shooter in the 1950's would see that gun as having the best of both worlds with that set up.

 

[mikepriwer]

The only way to know if this was originally shipped as a target is to get a factory letter. I'm reasonably sure that the King front sight base is not original to the gun, and probably the rear sight, although it looks like a S&W rear sight leaf, is also not original. Perhaps King did this work.

Mike Priwer

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Was King doing work in the 1920's. I have a Reg. Magnum with King reflector ramp and red post front sight so I know they were doing this mid-1930's. My RM letters with this configuration. The OP's gun appears to have a King ramp, but probably not a reflector. The question is was King making those in the 1920's? I've never seen a gun that early with King sights on it that letters as original.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

I have a commercial 1917, # 180692, which shipped in January 1936, which is much later than most of these. Mine must have been waaay in the back of the S&W vault.

 

[Jim Watson]

The front sight sure looks like a King red post on plain ramp. The rear looks more like Smith than King to me.

What is the white edge to the Magna grips?

 

[StrawHat]

...What is the white edge to the Magna grips?...

That caught my eye also. A spacer to make K frame magnas fit the 1917?

Kevin

 

[DWalt]

That caught my eye also. A spacer to make K frame magnas fit the 1917?

Kevin

I thought that could be a possibility, but I don't know. I haven't seen anything like that.

 

[Hondo44]

I too would like to see a view from the top. All I can tell from the side is the flat where the elevation screw(s) are mounted looks like it might be long enough to be a post 1935 "2 screw" sight. That and no matching serial # on the bottom of the sight tang could prove the sight is not original to the gun. or could be a later addition.

And also like to know if there's a rework date under the left grip for a possible factory sight installation.

Although there's no star on the butt, that isn't always a deal breaker but could be.

 

[Hondo44]

The front sight sure looks like a King red post on plain ramp. The rear looks more like Smith than King to me.

What is the white edge to the Magna grips?

That caught my eye also. A spacer to make K frame magnas fit the 1917?

Kevin

I agree, the pre war N frame grip frame is about the thickness of the white spacer on the butts of the grips, longer than the post war stocks.

 

[coburnrkt]

So, oddly there is no hammer spring. Also the King sight looks like it was added later.

 

[Tom K]

On my list is a commercial Model 1917, SN 180173, shown as shipping on 10/27/26 (a Target version). I have no pictures of that one for comparison to yours. The extractor rod knob design suggests pre-1928. There is no question that yours is a commercial 1917, but I suspect the target sights may have been added outside the factory somewhat later, as sights of that general appearance are usually not seen until post-WWII. King sights are usually stamped with their name, so you might check. S&W did sometimes send customer guns to King's (D. W. King, San Francisco) for custom sight work, but of course King would do work for anyone. Also there were target sight sources other than King's. As previously stated, the grips are much newer than the gun, probably from the late 1940s to early 1950s period, and may have been added around the same time as the sights. The trigger on yours is of the target style which were not supplied by S&W until the early 1950s. It's not unusual to see an earlier S&W revolver with a swapped-out target trigger.

Jim, the gun that you referenced SN 180173 is mine and here is a link to my thread about it: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...ost-13-swhf-docs-post-15-a.html#post138524507

The thread did have a bunch of dead links to an obsolete picture host , so I edited to include pictures hosted by this Forum. Here's a pic of my gun for comparison:

It appears to me that the OP's gun has been modified outside the factory, possibly by Kings, but he should get a S&W letter just to be sure. I was happy I did!

 

[tenntex32]

Aside from the obvious modifications others have noted I have just one thing to add.....

I would have expected to see a "SMITH & WESSON" factory marking on the right side of the barrel for a commercial model in this serial number range.

Can you tell us if the barrel's serial number matches the frame's? Of course stranger things have happened with regards to S&W, so it may be original.......just curious though. (Also, are there any small eagle head/with numbers inspector markings anywhere on the revolver?)

My commercial model in the 1819xx serial number range, with matching serial numbered barrel, has the "SMITH & WESSON" marking. If your barrel is original maybe S&W was still using up the U.S. Government contract barrels without the right side "SMITH & WESSON" markings into the 180xxx serial numbered commercial models?

I feel as though I should have known this by now................

Dale

 

[Muley Gil]

Please post a picture of the rear sight, taken straight down. If you have a very small screwdriver, remove the rear sight and see if it is numbered to the frame.

 

[Muley Gil]

Aside from the obvious modifications others have noted I have just one thing to add.....

I would have expected to see a "SMITH & WESSON" factory marking on the right side of the barrel for a commercial model in this serial number range.

Can you tell us if the barrel's serial number matches the frame's? Of course stranger things have happened with regards to S&W, so it may be original.......just curious though.

Mine isn't marked on the right side of the barrel.

 

[tenntex32]

Mine isn't marked on the right side of the barrel.

So we can deduce that the "SMITH & WESSON" right side barrel marking probably started somewhere around the 181,xxx serial number range?

I have just the one example of a S&W commercial M1917, aside from a Brazilian M1917 built identically. They both have the marking. I once had another Brazilian M1917 that was around 1000 numbers later than my 1819xx s/n commercial example and it too had the "SMITH & WESSON" barrel marking.

I can't help but wonder if it may also have more to do with when they were actually built versus actual serial number. As in maybe a 1920's era assembled example may not have the marking but a 1930's era assembled example may have it. I'm talking actual assembly date not shipping date here. (Funny enough there are many post WWII Brazilian M1917 examples built using leftover/found WWI era U.S. contract M1917 parts that have the older style barrels without the right side "SMITH & WESSON" marking.)

It does look as though the line is somewhere around the 180xxx/181xxx serial number range though.........and maybe as late as just the 181xxx and above serial numbered revolvers?

Man I feel as though I have seen one or two commercial models in the 180xxx range with the right side "SMITH & WESSON" barrel markings though. (Of course I could be misremembering though.)

 

[Hondo44]

So, oddly there is no hammer spring. Also the King sight looks like it was added later.

Well one thing is clear, besides the trigger, the hammer is a replacement post war Transitional notched for the sliding bar hammer block. Becuase the rebound slide does not have the pivot pin for the sliding bar.

 

[DWalt]

Pictures weren't up the last time I viewed this thread. Indeed neither the hammer nor the trigger are original. Would be a good idea to scrub off the rust from the grip frame.

 

[coburnrkt]

Nothing beneath the rear sight.

 

[DWalt]

The rear sight seems to be S&W. I don't know - were all of the S&W adjustable rear sights serial numbered? And should there be a visible groove in the rear sight channel as this one shows?

 

[Muley Gil]

The rear sight seems to be S&W. I don't know - were all of the S&W adjustable rear sights serial numbered? And should there be a visible groove in the rear sight channel as this one shows?

The groove indicates that this was a fixed sight revolver that has had an adjustable rear sight fitted to it.

 

[Hondo44]

The rear sight seems to be S&W. I don't know - were all of the S&W adjustable rear sights serial numbered? And should there be a visible groove in the rear sight channel as this one shows?

All pre war style target sights and sight blades were serial numbered to the gun, even after WWII because of the flush fit to the top strap up thru 1957 when last used.

However if the gun went back to the factory for installation of pre war style sights, they were not always serial numbered because the work was done in the service dept.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

So we can deduce that the "SMITH & WESSON" right side barrel marking probably started somewhere around the 181,xxx serial number range?



I have just the one example of a S&W commercial M1917, aside from a Brazilian M1917 built identically. They both have the marking. I once had another Brazilian M1917 that was around 1000 numbers later than my 1819xx s/n commercial example and it too had the "SMITH & WESSON" barrel marking.



I can't help but wonder if it may also have more to do with when they were actually built versus actual serial number. As in maybe a 1920's era assembled example may not have the marking but a 1930's era assembled example may have it. I'm talking actual assembly date not shipping date here. (Funny enough there are many post WWII Brazilian M1917 examples built using leftover/found WWI era U.S. contract M1917 parts that have the older style barrels without the right side "SMITH & WESSON" marking.)



It does look as though the line is somewhere around the 180xxx/181xxx serial number range though.........and maybe as late as just the 181xxx and above serial numbered revolvers?



Man I feel as though I have seen one or two commercial models in the 180xxx range with the right side "SMITH & WESSON" barrel markings though. (Of course I could be misremembering though.)

My commercial 1917 serial number 18180X has the Smith & Wesson stamp. This gun was shipped in 1932 to the Denver Police.



Guy

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Here's a picture.

Guy

 

[tenntex32]

I wonder about what serial number the "SMITH&WESSON" barrel marking became the norm on the commercial M1917?

Late 180xxx or early 181xxx?

 

[tenntex32]

Here's a picture.

Guy

That's a nice looking commercial. Unfortunately my one commercial example has been "tastefully" refinished.......and not by the factory.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Thanks! And it looks really wonderful since it was a police gun. The only area the blue is not perfect is the nose where it was stuck in the holster.

Guy