Need Help (which CC Course)

[drew-67]

Hi everyone, I need help deciding which upcoming training course I should attend..Unfortunately I just can not afford to attend both right now.
One course is a live fire conceal carry course (300 rounds) the course outline looks awesome. All the basics of carry are covered, legal issues etc, also Arizona, Nevada and LAPD Qualification shooting courses..I've attended this type of training, but not recently.
The other is a "simulation" conceal carry course..this is a "Force on Force" scenerilo based course, whereas airsoft replicas will be used with full protection masks. My understanding as this is as close as you can come to real live gun fight, without being in one. Very realistic..
I have not attended this type of training, so really hoping for feedback on those that have.
The instructor is the same on both courses..
Thanks for any help!

 

[sgtsandman]

I would go with the one that covers new ground that you haven't done before but that is just me.

 

[ou1954]

I'm not familiar with the second course but if I were in your situation I would go for the one that is heavy on legal training. You seem to be familiar with guns so legal is really important.

The second course sounds sort of like a paintball game, something you could do whenever you have the time and budget.

 

[drew-67]

Yes, legal is defiantly very very important..I have attended four different training courses in the past few years that covered a lot on legal issues, as well as all the other aspects..
The thing that intrigues me with the "force on force" scenerilo based training course, is your actually simulating real world situations, as best you can..within a safe environment.
However, I really like the opportunity to have a well respected instructor observe my CCW shooting and offer experienced knowledge on all aspects that involves.
Thanks for the replies thus far!

 

[Smoke]

First what is your experience level? If you are new take the course that’s going to give you the most solid foundation.

If you have some experience I'd recommend the FoF training because it will shatter your illusions of what “it” will be like if you ever actually have to defend your self with a gun

 

[Big Cholla]

IMHO, it is really better training to be using your CC handgun and drawing from your CC holster. Getting your handgun in your hand and actually shooting seems to me to reinforce the skills and mind set that you will need in an actual self defense situation. You then have an opportunity to really know what is working for you and equally so what isn't working so well. I say go for the live fire course and do a little airsoft with your friends as the opportunity arises later on. ........ Big Cholla

 

[fredj338]

If you have had good basic handgun classes, or shoot in something like idpa, a fof is excellent. You'll need good weapon skills to get the best out of a fof class.

 

[Ranger17]

OP, guess my question would be (and as i'm somewhat a newb take it with a grain of salt lol): does the live fire course include different "stations" to shoot from giving you different positions (stand, kneel, 1 and 2 hand, etc) which could really be a challenge or is it more range-based where you are shooting from the same position at the same target just the distance varies?
I tend to consider the legal aspect as a critical part of training, just curious how in depth the shooting course was and if it would improve your skills or just test them.

 

[Rastoff]

Where do you live? Who is teaching the course? How can we offer any help without knowing anything about the school?

They both sound like good courses. Of course, force on force is always good training. However, if the instructor is not that great or the curriculum is not well thought out, you won't get anything out of it.

 

[66 shooter]

First of all, kudos to you my friend for having the ambition to continue your firearms/CCW training and education. At this point I think you would be better served taking the course that you have not been exposed to previously. You can pick up valuable information and you can always attend the other course at a later time. Good luck with your advanced training and the most important thing is to have fun with it.

 

[drew-67]

Where do you live? Who is teaching the course? How can we offer any help without knowing anything about the school?

They both sound like good courses. Of course, force on force is always good training. However, if the instructor is not that great or the curriculum is not well thought out, you won't get anything out of it.

Course Schedule - MDTS
The two I am debating are;
"Concealed Pistol Skills" and "Practical Concealed Carry Skills"

Thanks for the help!

 

[drew-67]

Both courses look awesome and I've heard nothing but good thus far on the Instruction and looking forward to learning..
I am certainly intrigued with the first one "force on force", mainly because the concept of being able to go through scenarios with the airsoft, (which I would purchase a exact replica of my CCW) seems like a great learning experience for sure..I do believe though, that the fact that knowing that the guns being used aren't lethal would most likely effect the mindset, but it sounds about as close to realism as one can get.
However, I am actually leaning towards the second course that includes "live fire" I guess mainly because I am always hoping for some fine tuning with my actual CCW shooting and handling. I've been shooting long guns for over 35 yrs and handgun for 20, but really only started taking getting proficient with the handguns the past five years or so.
And most all my shooting is done on my own, so I've been trying to attend these types of courses it least once yearly. Thanks!

 

[Smoke]

I do believe though, that the fact that knowing that the guns being used aren't lethal would most likely effect the mindset,

You are in for a big surprise

 

[drew-67]

You are in for a big surprise

You mean in a good way I hope
I am sure given the instruction, the FOF training would be an intense eye opening experience.
As I've said I've never train this type of training with firearms and with CCW would make it even better.
I have trained empty hand daily most my life and also attended other weapons training, knives etc.
So have trained countless reality based scenarios and have found the realism comes down to the instruction/course.
But, I believe scenarios can only be simulations of "real".
It's always going to be different..Just my thoughts, Thanks

 

[Smoke]

The last time I did it was an active shooter scenario, where I had to respond to the sound of the shots, call for back up and clear the section of the building the shots came from.

When the shots were fired I took cover, drew my weapon and called for back up. That’s when things got interesting because the OCs decided that my radio didn’t work and my back up wasn’t coming (with out telling me).

So after about a minute (mind you the shots are continuing ) I start down the hall way and as I go to turn the corner two people come screaming around it right in my face. One grabs me and YELLS he’sgottagunhe’sgottagunhesgottagunand the takes of running past me and my “back up’ shows up.

We turn the corner and we now have a hallway full of screaming people, some “wounded”, some hiding and some responding as if we were the bad guys and in the middle of it all somewhere there’s still a shooter.

By the time I was done (two minutes later) I was sweating bullets

 

[drew-67]

Thanks so much for that follow up; sounds great and what I would hope for with this kind of training.. Thanks again!

 

[Smoke]

Thanks so much for that follow up; sounds great and what I would hope for with this kind of training.. Thanks again!

Part of that post is missing I started out by saying that when don properly one of the primary objectives of force on force training is to induce stress then teach you how to operate under that stress.

 

[Smoke]

Actual force on force scenarios from tactical Response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeJe1K-Nlzk

Be advised the language in this video is VERY graphic it is NOT suitable for all audiences

 

[CatSnipah]

I'm not familiar with the second course but if I were in your situation I would go for the one that is heavy on legal training. You seem to be familiar with guns so legal is really important.

The second course sounds sort of like a paintball game, something you could do whenever you have the time and budget.

Agreed. You can never get enough exposure and repetition on the legal side.

 

[LenS]

Like others, I vote for taking the comprehensive course first. Then later, when you have the money, take the next step with FOF training.