NEED HELP WITH 1905 4TH CHANGE AUSTRAILIAN

[SmithBuyer]

I just purchached an smith and wesson model 1905 4th change sent to Australia in 1941. The reason i know this is because the pistol came with a letter from Smith and Wesson. The thing is the pistol does not have and Australian markings on it. Help please.

 

[Walter Rego]

Tell us what markings the revolver DOES have on it and someone will be able to help you. A serial number, caliber, barrel length, etc. are also good places to start. Does it have any markings that look like this: D/I\D ? The D Broad Arrow D mark is the Aussie Department of Defense mark.

 

[Muley Gil]

"I just purchached an smith and wesson model 1905 4th change sent to Australia in 1941. The reason i know this is because the pistol came with a letter from Smith and Wesson. The thing is the pistol does not have and Australian markings on it. Help please."

Jus what type of help do you want? If the letter you speak of is a factory historical letter from Mr Roy Jinks, very little can be added to the information that letter contains.

Not every firearm received markings that one would normally expect. Even the factory occassionally forgets to put on their stampings.

 

[SmithBuyer]

The pistol only has the regular smith and wesson markings there are no other markings on the pistol. The pistol has a 5in barrel and checkered walnut grips. The letter states the current config. everthing matches. The story from the saler was that his father picked up the pistol in sydney and carried it through the Pacific ,He was an American soldier.

 

[SmithBuyer]

Really just wanting to know if not having the Austrailian marking was common and if it adds to the vaule of the firearm.

 

[murphydog]

My recollection is there should not be any Australian stampings on it unless it went through a refurbishing process; many .38/200 VMs are found stamped in the 1953-'55 time frame with these.

Large numbers of these were sent to Britain during WW II and relatively few elsewhere, but it would probably take a fairly advanced/specialized collector for it to be worth more than one in equal condition that was shipped to a more common destination.

 

[SmithBuyer]

Thanks for the insights it helps alot.

 

[opoefc]

SmithBuyer, There's two types of Model 1905, 4th change sent to Australia in 1941. Neither would have any special markings - just the standard S&W markings. They are (1) a commerical gun ordered by an Aussie distributor, or (2) a military gun sent to the Australian military. If the gun is
the 2nd type, and that's what the letter says, and was "liberated" from Aussie ownership by an American GI who brought it home after WW2, it would never have been through the Aussie rebuild of these guns and obtained the numerous rebuild markings seen on Aussie guns. As said above, the letter has all the info. the factory knows about the gun. I would give the gun a slight value increment to a Victory collector, over guns with the Aussie rebuild marks, as they are refinished and can have mixed numbers, and yours is original with a letter.
Ed.

 

[Ballarat]

Smithbuyer, the gun should have the calibre stamped on the right side of the barrel, it would probably be 38 S&W CTG. Or possibly 38/200. Does the serial number have a V prefix, failing that a fairly high serial number approaching 800000 or above without any letter prefix. The absence of markings on the top strap such as US Property etc would indicate it was not a lendlease gun and was possibly a civilian purchase gun before the lendlease programme. 5 inch barrels were the preferred length for British and Commonwealth forces. The other scenario which is hypothetical is the gun was liberated from the military by a person or persons unknown before any stamps could be applied. Broached cargo when entering Australia. Hence perhaps the sale to a GI on the side with dollars to spend.

 

[Oldiron]

SmithBuyer. Yours is most likely in the same catagory as 2 South African contract 38 S&W 4" I have. The first one I found has the S.A. stamp on the grip frame along with the rack #. The 2nd one I found 2weeks after the first is in the s/n range for shipment to S.A. but has the British proofs at each hole on the cylinder. Neither has any commercial or import marks. Both were shipped in 1940 but somehow ended up in the same gun shop in 2011. Strange things went on just prior to WWII.

 

[PJGP]

Both were shipped in 1940 but somehow ended up in the same gun shop in 2011. Strange things went on just prior to WWII.

That would be the 1942-45 World War would it, unlike the 1917-18 one?

Peter

 

[Oldiron]

Yep, that would be the one Peter. Since you have hit the thread, Do you know what the number 32 would be on a marked S.A.? Have arrow U, rack # and #32 a little lower. I plan on putting pics on a new thread soon but would like to know on the number.
Larry

 

[Ballarat]

That would certainly be the Union of South Africa marking. The other numbers as in Australia could refer to a military district marking/issue.
Particular unit markings were not usually applied. General issue.

 

[PJGP]

Yep, that would be the one Peter..
Larry

Really!?

I have never seen a rack number on any South African Union Defence Force S&W Larry. They all just have the Arrow in U with a sequential property number below. Except that is for the 5" Lend lease one I have where the armourers failed to stamp the Arrow in U!

The other gun that you say is in the S/N of those shipped to SA must be one of the first 4000 that were diverted to the UK. Those were never sent here and so have no Arrow in U mark. The British proof marks will be post-war civilian ones after disposal by the military.

Peter