Need help with ID

[oldchevy67]

Hi All,
New to this site, was hoping for some help with info on this gun.
.38 s&w ctgs
6.5" barrel
No s/n or model behind yoke.
blue is all beat up, yoke is sloppy.
Front sight seems to have been modified.
I was thinking of fixing this gun up for my dad to carry. It's been in the family forever, belonged to a cop in the family who was born in 1894...not sure if he carried this for work, but it's definitely been beat up.
I'm interested in doing a 2" barrel on this. Is it worth leaving it alone? If not, what parts do I need to modify it?
Any comments, help welcome
Thanks a lot

 

[Jim Watson]

Looks like a Military & Police .38, Second Model of 1902, probably made in 1902. Target model, quite uncommon, SCSW says worth two to three times as much as standard version.
The star after the serial number means that it went back to the factory for repair or refinishing.

Grips are wrong, Magnas cut to fit the backstrap but not the frontstrap.
I would call the blue worn but not beat up. I would want a real S&W revolversmith to look at the "sloppy" yoke.

I think it is "worth leaving alone." Not just for its rarity but because its cylinder is not heat treated for +P and its rebounding hammer is not a safe as a "modern" (post 1945) hammer block.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

Leave it alone and just buy him a 2" model 10 . Nothing wrong that I see that can't be fixed and it is worth saving .

Eddie

 

[NovaJoe]

It should be .38 S&W Special, not .38 S&W.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

Please don't alter this revolver. Target models like this don't come around often.

Look for either a M64 2" (stainless .38 special) or a smaller frame .38, like the Chief's Special.

 

[Targets Guy]

Agree. Do not alter that beauty.

 

[Dreslan]

From what I can see in the photos, you've got a .38 Hand Ejector model 1902. The serial number and the straight-walled barrel means that it is before the first engineering change and was likely shipped in late 1902. Also, yours has target sights, which is a little more rare. The grips are definitely from a later period.

This is a beautiful old gun and a family heirloom and with mild 38 specials can be a fun range shooter. However, it is not rated for modern +P ammo, and more importantly it DOES NOT HAVE A HAMMER BLOCK. I strongly recommend that you don't carry it for protection since if it falls or is struck on its hammer, a round could go off.

It would be much better to keep this in the safe to pass down to your descendants, and buying a newer gun to carry. If money is an issue, sell this old girl. There are folks who collect older Smiths. Whatever you do, please don't cut the barrel on this target model. While not really rare, there aren't too many left!

 

[Kurusu]

Hi All,
New to this site, was hoping for some help with info on this gun.
.38 s&w ctgs
6.5" barrel
No s/n or model behind yoke.
blue is all beat up, yoke is sloppy.
Front sight seems to have been modified.
I was thinking of fixing this gun up for my dad to carry. It's been in the family forever, belonged to a cop in the family who was born in 1894...not sure if he carried this for work, but it's definitely been beat up.
I'm interested in doing a 2" barrel on this. Is it worth leaving it alone? If not, what parts do I need to modify it?
Any comments, help welcome
Thanks a lot

Do you really want to change your name to Bubba?

 

[DCWilson]

What a neat and uncommonly seen revolver! Everybody is pretty much on target in their comments so far. The original stocks may have been hard rubber or possibly checked hardwood with dished tops and no medallions. It ought to be possible to find to find authentic or semi-authentic replacements on Gunbroker or even Ebay. Any prewar round butt K-frame stocks should fit (though stocks from the 'teens, '20s and '30s would look a little anachronistic to a sharp eye) -- and at the same time look better than what's on it now, which appear to be cut down N-frame magnas from (roughly) the late '50s to early '60s.

Yes, it is an early Model of 1902 Target -- not often seen. If the yoke fit is a little loose, it would be worth finding a competent gunsmith to repair it. In any event, it is far more valuable in its current condition that it would be if modified or refinished.

Note the star adjacent to the serial number on the butt. That indicates at least one return trip to the factory for refinishing or repair. The date of that repair should be stamped on the left side of the grip frame in the vicinity of the strain screw. Look for a date code like 10.27, which would indicate October 1927.

This could be an excellent range revolver. I would limit myself to low power handloads to respect its age, but it should be perfectly acceptable to shoot semi-wadcutter target loads in it.

Please don't cut this gun up. Find your Dad a more recent two-inch S&W, and keep this one in the family as an heirloom. The gun and its history deserve to be passed down to generations yet to come.

 

[oldchevy67]

Thank you all for the great info.
I'm taking your advice and will not alter this gun. Would possibly changing some internals like whatever it takes to tighten up the yoke and cylinder devalue this gun? (By a revolver Smith, not by a dummy like me)

 

[oldchevy67]

Yeah, definitely dont want to be a Bubba, no altering going on here. I had no idea about target models, I thought the gun had been butchered in the last, now I know. Going to look for a date code associated with the star.

 

[rct269]

No----the repairs would not devalue the gun.

Just make sure you take it to someone who KNOWS he can fix it---as opposed to the legions who think they can---or would like to try.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[oldchevy67]

Looked for date codes from the factory visit, found nothing. Did find the serial number on the barrel, butt and cylinder all match.
By the way, does bubba use a band saw or cutting torch?

 

[oldchevy67]

Are these the correct style grips (minus the medallions) for my gun?

 

[andy52]

Welcome to the Forum.

Please don't alter this revolver. Target models like this don't come around often.

Look for either a M64 2" (stainless .38 special) or a smaller frame .38, like the Chief's Special.

Yes please what he said.^^^^^^^^

 

[oldchevy67]

Yes please what he said.^^^^^^^^

I'm not going to cut it. I now really want to find some correct grips!

 

[DCWilson]

Are these the correct style grips (minus the medallions) for my gun?

No. Those are square butt stocks. You need K-frame round butt grips like the ones you see on the gun in this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-s-navy-no-25188-a.html?523784=#post139620691

These are the checkered wood stocks that I mentioned in my earlier post. If you can find hard rubber stocks with the same profile, those would be proper too.

 

[DCWilson]

I just noticed in the photo with the DeWalt saw that the trigger return spring seems to be missing. These 1902 models had internals that are quite different from what the company was doing after 1906. Search the forum archives for a thread that shows a 1902 with its sideplate off so you can see its interior parts.

Actually, if you could take the sideplate off and post a pic of the action as it currently exists, that would help us understand what repairs the revolver might need. But please don't try to take the sideplate off if you don't have the proper screwdriver set, if the screws seem frozen, or if the sideplate won't bounce off when you sharply rap the frame. Never try to pry a sideplate free. Just rap the grip frame with a screwdriver handle until the plate pops free of its own accord.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! I think Dave Wilson has seen something that indicates what was done at the factory for the rework. If the action works on that gun, it cocks and then the trigger releases the hammer, it received a rebound slide modification. In other words, the factory took the original trigger return spring out and replaced it with the new rebound slide and hand modification that came along in 1905. It may also have had the target sights put on it at that time. An historian's letter will tell you how it was originally configured for $75. However it won't address the modification.

Guy

 

[oldchevy67]

No. Those are square butt stocks. You need K-frame round butt grips like the ones you see on the gun in this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-s-navy-no-25188-a.html?523784=#post139620691

These are the checkered wood stocks that I mentioned in my earlier post. If you can find hard rubber stocks with the same profile, those would be proper too.

Thanks for that link, very helpful. Now to find those grips! I will try to gently get the side plate off.