Hello everyone, brand new member looking for a little help in identifying a found pistol. A family member recently passed away and I inherited an old safe, fortunately with the combination, unfortunately without millions of dollars. Inside I found a small, 5 shot revolver, .38 caliber. The side of the barrel reads ".38 S&W CTG". The top of the barrel has 4 patent dates, "Aug. 4, 98, Dec. 22, 98, Oct. 6, 01, Feb. 6, 06". There is some pitting but the dates are still clear. The serial number on the bottom of the grip as well as inside the revolver is 3066. I have faint memories of this gun from when I was a kid, I seem to recall it being referred to as a woman's pistol? Something about the smaller size and the fact it was only a five shot. I'd love to know the approximate year this gun was made. I've had various members of my family who were in the Army, Navy and Air Force, could it have come from one of them? I appreciate any information provided. Thanks.
Need help with identification
- Thread starter ShelbyBox
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Hondo44
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Welcome to the forum. Does the cylnder swing out to the side?
DWalt
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And is it for sure a S&W? There were numerous other makers of .38 S&W-caliber breaktop revolvers in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, both here and in Europe. Pictures would be nice. Could possibly be a Perfected model from your description. In any event, it would probably best be addressed in the S&W Antiques section of the forum.
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Sorry, I guess I could have mentioned it has the S&W logo on the left side, just ahead of the grip and above the patent dates on top the barrel reads, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Mass. U.S.A. Give me a minute and I'll post a couple pictures. Thanks very much.
DWalt
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I can't see any photos, but does yours look like the pictures of the Perfected break top shown here?
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/226370-perfected-model-38-s-w-caliber.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/226370-perfected-model-38-s-w-caliber.html
Yep! .38 Double Action Perfected Model. These were made from c. 1909 until 1920. As has been mentioned, it is unique in that it has both a thumb cylinder release and the T-bar barrel release. In some sense it was a transition from the top break to the HE, in that it shared features of each (although HEs had been in production for more than a decade when these were first offered). Odd guns.
Jack
Jack
DWalt
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It's a shame yours is not in a little better cosmetic condition or you would have something to really be proud of. It is nickel plated. Nonetheless, the Perfected DAs are not exactly common in any condition, and should you decide to sell it, it would be easy to do so.
The idea of having two redundant locking systems, so the story goes, is if a cop had a conventional breaktop revolver (and many did back in the day), and had the drop on a BG, the BG could reach over the top and release the latch, rendering the cop's revolver inoperative. Whether that actually happened, I have no idea, but it could have. Anyway, the Perfected Model's design would prevent that from happening. And, as far as the term "Perfected", goes, this model was pretty much the perfection of the S&W breaktop revolver design. There were no more recent breaktop revolver designs made by S&W after this one.
PS: Should you decide to shoot it, .38 S&W ammo is still made and is available - just not commonly stocked by most retail gun dealers as there is not a great demand for it. And it's a little expensive when you find it.
The idea of having two redundant locking systems, so the story goes, is if a cop had a conventional breaktop revolver (and many did back in the day), and had the drop on a BG, the BG could reach over the top and release the latch, rendering the cop's revolver inoperative. Whether that actually happened, I have no idea, but it could have. Anyway, the Perfected Model's design would prevent that from happening. And, as far as the term "Perfected", goes, this model was pretty much the perfection of the S&W breaktop revolver design. There were no more recent breaktop revolver designs made by S&W after this one.
PS: Should you decide to shoot it, .38 S&W ammo is still made and is available - just not commonly stocked by most retail gun dealers as there is not a great demand for it. And it's a little expensive when you find it.
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Hondo44
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ShelhyBox,
Welcome to the forum. That's a pretty special little model and only about 60,000 were made.
They filled a real void in the S&W small frame 'pocket gun' or 'cop gun' in the line up of Smiths because although there were breaktop 38 S&Ws they were old technology compared to the only small hand ejector, the .32 Long. The .38 S&W HE didn't come out until 1917.
I suspect the old topbreaks with their 'auto eject' had a real following, so it's mating with the new tech HE action was true "perfection", of course every maker had something called perfected, back in the day. It was the fad word then like "smart" is today!!
I think they are very cool. Here's mine dressed for the range, otherwise it wears its original S&W pearl 'cathouse' stocks:
Welcome to the forum. That's a pretty special little model and only about 60,000 were made.
They filled a real void in the S&W small frame 'pocket gun' or 'cop gun' in the line up of Smiths because although there were breaktop 38 S&Ws they were old technology compared to the only small hand ejector, the .32 Long. The .38 S&W HE didn't come out until 1917.
I suspect the old topbreaks with their 'auto eject' had a real following, so it's mating with the new tech HE action was true "perfection", of course every maker had something called perfected, back in the day. It was the fad word then like "smart" is today!!
I think they are very cool. Here's mine dressed for the range, otherwise it wears its original S&W pearl 'cathouse' stocks:
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Forester
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As mentioned, these guns were made between 1909 and 1920. The serial range was 1-59,400 so yours is pretty early.
That's some quality information right there
Thanks again for all the great info about this gun. I am proud to own it and currently I'm checking into the possibility that it could have been issued to my Grandfather when he was in the United States Cavalry in Maryland. He joined prior to WWI, around 1910. I'm just speculating because of the 4 digit serial# and the time he was in the service. Who knows? I don't plan to sell it, but I am interested to know the value. It has some pitting, one brown grip and one black, the brown one is chipped at the bottom a little bit. Other than that it functions 100% and looks untouched. Thanks to all who shared their knowledge, I appreciate it.
Thanks again for all the great info about this gun. I am proud to own it and currently I'm checking into the possibility that it could have been issued to my Grandfather when he was in the United States Cavalry in Maryland. He joined prior to WWI, around 1910. I'm just speculating because of the 4 digit serial# and the time he was in the service. Who knows? I don't plan to sell it, but I am interested to know the value. It has some pitting, one brown grip and one black, the brown one is chipped at the bottom a little bit. Other than that it functions 100% and looks untouched. Thanks to all who shared their knowledge, I appreciate it.
Hondo44
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This model is not a military arm and to my knowledge it has not had any military history at all. But it's not unlikely that it was a self supplied sidearm and carried by him in the cavalry.
Do not be surprised if you come across a Perfected Model w/o the redundant thumb latch release, there were a few made but rare.
Do not be surprised if you come across a Perfected Model w/o the redundant thumb latch release, there were a few made but rare.
DWalt
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Agree. I have never heard of any martial use of the Perfected, but back in those days, some soldiers could carry personal weapons. You might want to get a factory letter if you think it is worth $50. At a minimum, it would provide an accurate shipping date. And it is possible that it may contain more interesting information regarding how it was configured at shipment and to whom (or where) it was shipped. At worst, having the letter will add a price premium if you ever sell it.
PS- It might be possible to polish and shine it up some to make it look a little better. Someone else may have more details.
PS- It might be possible to polish and shine it up some to make it look a little better. Someone else may have more details.
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