Need help with my .38

[billiejack2]

I got an old 38 police revolver from my grandpa. I came on here for help after I took it to a gun shop and stumped the S&W expert they had. I would like help in determining a year and not to concerned with value.
All I know about it is:
.38 maybe .38 Special
4 Screw
4in barallel with half moon sight
serial number 17XX printed on butt but not under hard rubber grips (nonthing under grips) also no letter in s/n
6 shots
and a proof mark looks sorta like 4 triangles pointing at each other

Again just trying to find something out about this old gun

 

[geoff40]

Sounds like a "pre 5 screw" era 4 screw revolver, possibly an early, first year, 1899 gun. A first year "handejector" in other words. If you can post a good photo or 2, it would be a great help.
If it is such, the gun was engineered for black powder 38 Special loads, and if it were mine, I'd be very hesitant to shoot it with smokeless powder loads of today.

 

[scooter123]

Are you sure about that 4 digit serial number? If it really does only have 4 digits in the serial number I suspect that what you have is a Military & Police 1st model of 1899. One key tipoff for this particular model is that there is NO locking lug for the ejector rod on the underside of the barrel.

If there is a locking lug on the barrel you've skipped some digits. This would be possible if someone drilled a hole in the grip frame to mount a lanyard ring. Techinically this is forbidden but things were much "looser" concerning firearms back in the early 20th century. Alternate location for the serial number on early S&W's are the underside of the barrel by the ejector rod and the rear of the cylinder under the extractor star. I would suggest that you look in these areas and confirm your serial number.

I also suspect that your screw count is incorrect. Typically a "5 Screw" S&W will have 4 screws for the sideplate and one screw on the front of the trigger guard. For some reason the strain screw on the lower front of the grip frame is never counted.

Finally, PICTURES are superb for identifying the particulars of a revolver. You can attach an image from the hard drive on your computer by uploading it to this sight. To do this click "Go Advanced", scroll down to "Manage Attachments", and then Upload the image file from your computer.

 

[billiejack2]

Here are some pictures of it.

 

[billiejack2]

There is a screw at the bottom of the grip on the trigger side. The serial number is intact and is only 4 digits.

 

[Art Doc]

Yup. Looks like an 1899 model to my non-expert eye. Real oldie.

Mike Priwer is the resident 1899 expert. Wait for him to show up and he can tell you all about it.

 

[lowhog]

Hi,What you got there is a model of 1899 Army-Navy revolver 38 special or 38 long colt u.s. service cartridge.Nice gun!4 digits I think would put her around 1899 first year.

 

[mikepriwer]

Thank you, SP.

Yes - that is a Model of 1899. If the gun is all original, you should find the serial
number stamped ( very lightly ) in the flat area on the underside of the barrel, very
close to the frame. It should also be on the rear face of the cylinder, again very
lightly stamped. Because of the light stamping, you may need a good light to find
the other two serial numbers.

The gun is probably a 38 special. While designed during the black powder, they are
safe for using lighter modern loads, like gallery loads - wadcutter.

The sideplate of of this gun looks to fit very nicely, with no apparent rounded edges.
From the pictures, the gun looks all original, and looks to be in reasonably good
condition. That is generally surprising for a gun of this age, because the bluing
process of the era did not produce particularly durable finishes.

As you've observed, the barrel is a straight taper, has a flat area on its underside, and
does not have any retention scheme for the extractor rod. In 1902 the extractor rod
was changed and a lug was added to the underside of the barrel, to retain the
extractor rod. In 1903, the barrel and frame nose were beefed up a bit, resulting in
a shoulder on the barrel where it meets the frame.

Hope all this helps, Mike Priwer

 

[billiejack2]

If it is a military issue, would it have the laynard attachment? I have also heard the hard rubber grips werent military issue. Also any idea about the proof mark. I looked in the blue book and nonthing really matched it.

 

[billiejack2]

Also I appreciate all the help and comments. This gun has stumped me for awhile so just wanna get an idea what i got

 

[DCWilson]

That's a very nice and very early .38 M&P. I am envious.

You mentioned a "proof mark." Where exactly is that located? S&W occasionally made use of symbols to start and end lines that designated a model or a caliber, and one of those had a variation that looked like a Maltese Cross. These are usually found on the barrel.

 

[geoff40]

Yeah, thats nice! I too, am a bit envious.

 

[Hondo44]

That's a nice original, all intact gun as others have said. If what you call the "proof marks" are on either side of: the cartridge marking on the side of the barrel or the address and patent dates on the top of the barrel, those are typographical decorations which were common back in the day and all the way up thru the 1950s on some Smith models.

 

[billiejack2]

I hadnt really thought of it, but the marks on the barrel do look sorta like the maltese cross. There are two of them at each end of the barrel located on the top. The only other mark I could find on it is the crane stamp in the cylinder area.
The gun shop I took it to, also removed the grips looking for serial numer or markings but nonthing.
Also, they sold me 155 gr. ammo. Is that to hot of a load for this gun or do I need to find a lighter load?

 

[mikepriwer]

Use wadcutter - that is typically a light load.

Mike Priwer

 

[guitar1580]

That is one sweet revolver. Great family heirloom.

Josh P

 

[billiejack2]

Alright another stumper, I looked for the lightly stamped serial numbers on the barrel and cylinder. Those 2 matchedbut was different than the butt. I guess the cool thing is that it is still 4 digits and a lower serial number than the butt. The serial number on the cylinder and barrel still start with 17XX and is 13 lower than the butt.
Thanks everyone for the great posts. Ive learned alot about my revolver and Im glad you like it.

 

[mikepriwer]

Nobody here cares about the full serial number of an 1899, so tell us what is on the
butt, and what is on the cylinder & barrel. Knowing what it is, perhaps we can
offer some further help.

Mike Priwer

 

[billiejack2]

The butt of the gun is 1753 and the cylinder and barrel is 1740.

 

[H Richard]

That has to be a fairly early 1st Model M&P (1899). I have a #8636 and it was shipped Jan. 1901, so would assume yours would have been shipped in mid 1900. These have somewhat different lock-work than the later versions of the M&P. Be sure to use mild loads as others have mentioned.

Internal lock-work.