need help with pre-64 Winchester Super Grade

DarryH

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I have the chance to buy a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Super Grade 30-06. The stock has a ton of figure. I am NOT sure the stock is original, which will of course greatly affect the price. I cannot take it apart. So the question is....made in 1939, what buttplate/buttpad should it have??? What is there is a thin black pad. Looks too good to be 1939. There is a thin small place in it's center that says something. I need to go back with a magnifier. I don't think it says Winchester as the space is very small. Any input ????
I have two days to decide. Thanks.
 

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I have the chance to buy a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Super Grade 30-06. The stock has a ton of figure. I am NOT sure the stock is original, which will of course greatly affect the price. I cannot take it apart. So the question is....made in 1939, what buttplate/buttpad should it have??? What is there is a thin black pad. Looks too good to be 1939. There is a thin small place in it's center that says something. I need to go back with a magnifier. I don't think it says Winchester as the space is very small. Any input ????
I have two days to decide. Thanks.

It should be steel and it should have a v-shaped part at the comb that dovetails into the wood.

Many of them were shortened, knocking out that v-shaped portion, and many were given rubber ventilated pads, etc. Also, you will find black plastic plates in place of the steel as well, again without the v-shape. Many of those were added to replace a worn out rubber pad on a shortened stock.
 
Super Grades are neat

Very interesting. Old Winchesters are hard to apprise. My take on
these things, is these type of guns were actually used, usually not
Safe Queens.

If there is no box, no receipt, no manual, no paper work and hang tag, what condition, number of bullets down the barrel, will it blow your face off, are all deductions to the selling price.

If you go over to Hunt Talk . Com there is a discussion going on
right now about a Pre-64.

The Best to you and your Endeavors.
 
OP....seriously?

With the vague info and no photos, it's impossible
to assist......you're on your own..

The back end of the stock is only one of many aspects
to determine value of a pre-war Super Grade.
 
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no pics now

I did not have the time to take pics when I saw it. I had it in my hands for less than 5 minutes, and was busy also doing something else. I made an offer to buy it, but did not even get to the price. Suffice it to say, the price is a steal and between friends. Even if the stock is not original it is a fair price. I am not asking opinion of the price or gun's condition. I really just am trying to figure out if it was ever offered with thin black pad. He does not know either. We are both under the assumption the stock is a replacement, just going by the pad that is on it. If the stock is original, I will be paying a bit more for it, just so I can sleep at night!!! Nothing ruins friendships faster than doing your friend wrong. Thanks for understanding. When I can get pics I will.
 
The Super Grade Model 70's I have seen in the old days(1950's), had steel butt plates and black forend tips. Looking admiringly at these at several sporting goods shops in our area I do not remember any that had "a ton of figure."The stocks were a bit glossier than the standard model but not overly figured like you would see in a high grade shotgun stock. I would agree that it may be a replacement stock.
 
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So, OP...I just have to ask out of curiosity....

How do you know it's actually a pre-war Super Grade
other than the seller telling you it is?
 
Also should not have any holes for scope bases in the rear receiver bridge. Many were drilled after they left the factory. Also, a true prewar gun would have a serial number under about 66,000 (approx.) and a cloverleaf tang. It would also have the Mauser-style wing safety at the back of the bolt.
 
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additional info

I have the serial number. 248XX, which I believe is 1939. The gun has an old scope, so it is drilled. I had not even thought about that.
The price is UNDER $1000, so it still seems to be a super price. Metal has wear but maybe 80-85% blue?? Just going by memory. I am getting to see it again tomorrow, and this time I will have more time with it. I want to measure the length of pull also. Thanks all.
 
If you like it, buy it. It sounds like it would be worth a grand if the bore is good, but it does not sound like an unaltered factory original.
 
It can have a scope mounted on it and still be unmolested from it's factory originality.
It's just that the rear scope mount base would not be attached to the middle of the rear recv'r bridge as Wyo mentions.

The rear scope base was intended to be mounted using the same screw holes on the left-rear side of the recv'r that also were intended to be used for the aperture/'peep' sight mounting.
The base attached to the side and the structure of the base mount then placed the scope in the ring central over the rear recv;'r ring.

Many people found this to their disliking and simply had the rear bridge D&T's for a common scope block.

An aftermarket D&T'd rear bridge lessens value quite a bit on a M70.
The butt plate should be the checkered steel with 'widows peak' at the top IIRC. Special orders were of course available and a pad is a possible factory item.
But those available from the factory at the time as options don't sound anything like the description of whats on it now.

Bbl should be dated on the bottom up next to the recv'r.
Bbl Date is yr the bbl was made. Not the yr the bbl was assembled onto the recv'r.
So you can have a bbl with a yr date that is older, and sometimes a few yrs older, than the production date by ser# look-up of the rifle.
Bbl's sometimes sat around is storage waiting for production runs to be used on the assembly line.

Some were marked 'S' or 'Super' on the bottom as well on the S/Grade. But that as well seems to be an on again off again thing.
The bottom edge of the recoil lug should be marked with an 'S'

Jeweled bolt, bolt body ser#'d to the rifle. The bolt ser# done by hand scribing with an ElectroPencil. Sometimes it's very light but it's there on the bottom,,take the bolt out of the gun.
Bolt body should be 'jeweled'. Winchester did that rather heavily, deeply cut. As opposed to aftermarket jobs (and most fake upgrades) which are done nicely but the swirls are much, much lighter cut.

SuperGrade stock should have 'SuperGrade' detachable sling swivels.
These are QD but are a slightly smaller size than the look-alike QD swivels that winchester used on their other guns.
Also, the bases for these S/G swivels was a solid base held in the wood with 2 wood screws. No single shaft wood screw.
I think the only other Winchester to use these odd size QD swivels was the Mod 52 Sporter.

I think the SG used a Gold Bead front sight,,not the usual Silver bead of most other Winchester front sights. Redfield mfg(?)
This may have been something that came along after production started so ser# would be important to decide if orig or not.
So many nuance points in deciding originality on a M70 and a S/Grd in particular.


There's fake sets of the swivels, S/G marked floor plates, and all the other special parts needed to make your very own SG. Even bbls and stocks.
 
there are three sets of pics I have added to my initial thread. Here is more info. 24" BBL, marked .30 GOV'T 06, buttpad says Ershon Company.
 
I have a 1938 standard grade all original and have owned Super Grades in the past though never a pre-war. As others noted the rubber buttpad is not original. It was possible to special order a rubber buttpad in 1939 but they were solid red rubber. The black one in the pics is a replacement. The rear bridge has been drilled and tapped as evidenced by the mounted Weaver scope base. The metal looks all original, rust blued barrel, Super Grade magazine cover, sandblasted receiver. The bolts on pre-war Super Grades were not jeweled, that treatment did not come along until the mid-1950's. Pre-war stock checkering was 20 lpi, changed to 18 lpi in the 1940's. It's difficult to tell from the pics but it looks like this one is a post-war stock. This may be a later replacement stock. It is correctly cut-out for the receiver sight. That's a beautiful rifle and the price you mentioned is a fraction of what an all original specimen would bring, particularly with that highly figured wood.
 
Is the bbl on the rifle a 'Featherweight' style ? (pic#4).
I'm not all that familiar with the contours but that steep stepdown from the narrow shoulder reminds of it.
...and I don't think the Featherweight 70 was made till after WW2..(1950's sometime))
but once again my M70 knowledge is faulty at best. Correct me if I'm wrong

If the action is a Pre-WW2 by ser# and the stock perhaps a replacement stock post war stock as FMJ points to,,maybe the bbl came along with the stock and went on the earlier action?
Bbl's were dated on the bottom but again I think that practice was an on again off again thing during Winchester mfg'r.

It is a beautiful looking rifle.
All the collectors minutia aside, if I was just looking for a nice early M70 as a shooter at a good price this would be in the running.
That's great looking wood from the pics.
 
Also should not have any holes for scope bases in the rear receiver bridge. Many were drilled after they left the factory. Also, a true prewar gun would have a serial number under about 66,000 (approx.) and a cloverleaf tang. It would also have the Mauser-style wing safety at the back of the bolt.

Yep and the cutout for stripper clips.
 
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