Need some suggestions for my wife's CCW

[Der Biermeister]

My wife (69 yrs) has expressed some interest -- lets call it lukewarm -- in getting her CCW permit and to begin carrying. She has some physical disabilities though that would greatly limit a choice of weapons. Let me explain:
She has leukemia, but it is under control now. Also, due to pretty bad arthritic thumbs, she had both thumb joints replaced about 10 years ago. No pain now, but she lacks any real strength. With my two semi-autos, she is not able to rack the slide. So I am wondering if perhaps a sub-compact, like a Ruger LCP .380 Ultra Compact Pistol, might work?

I have no experience at all in those kind of small guns. Do they rack much easier? In a .380 caliber, is the recoil quite low?

If we find a good weapon for her, getting her permit should be no problem as the requirements in VA are easy. The most I could expect would be for her to carry in her purse. I cannot envision ever seeing her wearing any kind of holster. But that is still MUCH better personal protection than what she has now -- a pepper spray.

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[OFT II]

If recoil is an issue I would recommend a steel frame J or K model in 38 Special. Alloy frame guns tend to kick harder. With a revolver there is no slide work, you just pull the trigger. If you go with an auto loader stay away from blow back actions as they tend to recoil harder than locked actions. Good luck. Giving recommendations to my wife is the quickest way for me to go to bed without supper.

 

[poordevil]

Beretta Tom Cat in .32 acp. Tip up BBL so never have to rack the slide. Double /single action and manual safety.


http://search.mywebsearch.com/myweb...m5Ql7ouPsCQ+Twzr3ib3vULnTQUkeFG3&ord=0&ct=AR&

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Pistols in .380 ACP caliber are typically blowback operated, having a fixed barrel with recoil spring pressure being the primary (if not only) means of lock-up. Consequently the recoil springs can be quite stout, so with your wife's conditions limiting her ability to rack the slides of semi-auto pistols it is likely that this will not be something she can easily do.

Assuming reasonable abilities with her finger strength a good double-action revolver might be a better option. I would suggest taking her to a range where she can try one or two before proceeding with a purchase.

In any of the smaller or lighter handguns recoil can be sharp, whether the caliber is .380, .38 Special, or just about anything over .22 rimfire. While a small handgun weighing 15 or 16 oz. is quite easy to carry comfortably and discreetly, they can be difficult to master to any degree of proficiency due to recoil and muzzle blast issues. An all steel revolver adds a few ounces of weight, but that is offset by significantly reduced "felt" recoil, as the weight of the handgun absorbs more of the energy. Soft rubber grips (such as the Pachmayr Compac series) can help a lot in reducing the discomfort of recoil.

Finally, a double-action revolver has no mechanical safety devices to be disengaged (which usually requires use of the thumb). This allows for an easier learning curve during familiarization and practice, while also eliminating one step in deploying the handgun in a stressful situation.

Assuming that your wife finds it possible to operate the double-action revolver comfortably, I'm thinking a steel-frame models (Model 36, 60, 640, 642, 649, etc, in the J-frames, or Model 10, 64, etc in the K-frames, and the Ruger SP101 would be worth trying as well). Good set of soft rubber grips. Stick with standard velocity .38 Special, either a good SWC load or even the 148 HBWC target loads (either one will perform quite well against two-legged threats at short range without damaging recoil or blast).

Familiarization and early practice sessions should be limited to short ranges (most defensive handgun uses are at ranges of less than 7 yards). This will help her build confidence more quickly (seeing more holes in the target) than trying to start out at longer ranges.

My $.02 worth.

 

[Der Biermeister]

Good stuff by all -- thanks.

And what you all say, pretty much backs up what I just read in this article:

Handguns for Handicapped and Very Recoil Sensitive Shooters

 

[coach22]

S & W 351C
22 Magnum
7 Shot
Double Action Only
10.5 Ounces
No weight-No Recoil-No Jam
Load it with either:
CCI Gold Dot Short Barrel 40 Grain
or
Hornady Critical Defense 45 Grain
The wood grips on mine are the ones
that come with the 351PD (exposed hammer),
that I ordered directly from S & W.
Take look at this article (BOTH PAGES)
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/the-22-mag-for-self-defense/

 

[tops]

My wife has a S&W BG.380 that she likes. One thing I never see mentioned about the Berettas with the tip up barrels is no extractor. If the shell doesn't fire racking the slide will not clear the chamber. The barrel has to be tipped up and use a ramrod to clear the chamber, load the chamber and close the barrel or close the barrel and rack the slide. That is how it is with a 21A. Larry

 

[haywood]

Find a Range wear you can rent Guns and let her decide befor you buy.

 

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Hard one to call, but I might suggest a 22mag in a J-frame.

 

[P&R Fan]

I have a client who is a Woman in her 70s. She's in pretty good shape but has very little hand strength. She got a carry permit a few years ago and I recommended an S&W Centennial. She got a M442, but had trouble opening the cylinder. She bought a Ruger LCR that opens the cylinder with the push of a button. That works well for her. She also bought a Ruger LCP .380 ACP that she can easily rack the slide on. She couldn't do that with my Glocks or a Kahr that I had at the time.
In my view the Rugers are the way to go for you.

Jim

 

[Hapworth]

Back up. Buy her a copy of Grant Cunningham's Defensive Revolver Fundamentals, Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme, or frankly any good, basic read on the many issues related to carrying for self defense. Suggest she read.

After she's had a chance to digest what carrying really means, see if she's still interested.

My thinking? You guess she's at best perhaps willing to carry in her purse (not a good place to carry), and don't envision her wearing a holster (a better place to carry). That indicates she's not sure yet what carrying entails or if it's for her.

Picking the gun out now is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Maze 686]

No thumb strength is required to rack a slide if you do it correctly.

Most J-frames require more strength to press their double action trigger.

Any gun can be loaded for her and then holstered until she needs it.

 

[Der Biermeister]

Any gun can be loaded for her and then holstered until she needs it.

Excellent point -- thanks

 

[USAF385]

I'd also recommend a revolver like other have.

Any gun can be loaded for her and then holstered until she needs it.

Don't forget though, an auto loader can jam after one shot. Could she clear the jam?

As far as the trigger goes, my wife could barely get the LCP or Bodyguard trigger to break and has no issue with my 642. And she's 28. The little .380s just have a very long trigger.

She also couldn't rack the slide on the pocket .380s, but can on my full size M&P.

 

[ltgem612]

I second the recommendation for a S&W 351C. Only drawbacks are they are expensive and hard to find.
On a J frame in all aluminum at 10oz you don't even know its in your pocket or on your person yet recoil is very very light since it is a 22 magnum not a .38spl.
With the new loads, as described in prior post, which are designed for a 2" bbl, not a rifle, you get good expansion and penetration. There is that school of thought that nothing less than a 45acp is adequate for self defense but you cant find a revolver that will fit in your pocket, is light weight, and HAS LITTLE RECOIL other than the 351C. Everything is a compromise.

 

[Der Biermeister]

I second the recommendation for a S&W 351C. Only drawbacks are they are expensive and hard to find.

How is the trigger pull for the 351C? I have a 642 and am having a hard time getting used to the long pull. I did a spring job to lighten the pull, but it still drives me nuts waiting for the break. So if the 351C is similar, I am sure it would be a problem for my wife.

 

[MrJT]

How is the trigger pull for the 351C? I have a 642 and am having a hard time getting used to the long pull. I did a spring job to lighten the pull, but it still drives me nuts waiting for the break. So if the 351C is similar, I am sure it would be a problem for my wife.

In my opinion the lcp and bg have a worse trigger. It's long, and the distance between the breaking point and the back of the grip is small, meaning you need to be practically making a fist to get the trigger to break.

USAF385 had a good point: if the gun jams, your wife could be out of luck.

 

[ltgem612]

You certainly might be right on the trigger pull of the 351pd. All S&W .22's come with a trigger that is a couple pounds HEAVIER than their .38 spls since the 22 is a rim fire and they want positive ignition. Only way to tell if it is too heavy/hard for your wife is to find one and let her see for herself. You shouldn't buy any gun without seeing how it fits/feels in your hand. Lots of firearms look good on paper but if they don't fit your hand size, length of fingers etc. you should move on to something else. Changing the grip on any J frame can make a definite difference in comfort and shooting ability. From the old Tyler T grips to all the new rubber etc grips available. Only your wife will know for sure.

 

[ibewbull]

If you want to p an empty chamber for what ever reason.

She would want to keep the hammer cocked to lessen required force.

Just a thought.

I like the J frame DA only myself. 38 Special WC could work fine as in the past it has served well as a back up.

 

[Rpg]

Consider a M34 lr kit gun.

There is a place for a 22.

Your wife would love it and rapidly learn to shoot it much better than anything else.

If she wants an auto: locate a Colt Woodsman or High Standard model B. These are so much easier to shoot than anything else that they are well worth the money.

This is for your wife of many years! Don't cheap out on her.

Just my opinion, of course

 

[snubbyfan]

A few things, my peripheral neuropathy causes weakness in my wrists and hands. I also have arthritis in my left thumb. A 442 with a spring change and smoothing and a grip change works for me. With semi's not only could the slide be a bit of a challenge at times but working the controls can also get to be a bit of a challenge.
I found things like the the slide lock, mag release and safeties can be difficult. Forget about Glock takedown levers. The triggers on polymer semi's feel odd to me too.
I tried handling the LCP, BG380 and LC9 at my local gun shop. I actually wasn't able to dry fire either the LCP or the BG380 without a drastic change in how I held the gun, the LC9 wasn't much better.
LoboGunLeather pretty much sums it all up. Except that for me I can still hold my lightweight 442 up and fire it with one hand. The heavier snubbies, not so much. A few ounces makes a difference there. I was willing to trade more "felt" recoil for versatility and the ability to fire with one hand when needed.

 

[Rancher Will]

My wife has carried a revolver in her special purse for close to 60 years. See the info that I posted above about women's holsters.

For any lady with the physical limitations you describe,, my wife suggested that you go to a gun shop, pickup and handle any of their small revolvers to locate one that is comfortable and easy for you to handle. Do not get one too lite weight but be sure that you can hold it and pull the trigger with ease. Too light and the recoil will be excessive and too heavy and you will not be comforatble carrying it.

If you carry it in a purse a revolver as as easy to conceal and carry as any auto and it fires by just pulling the trigger, no slide to fool with.

Perhaps a .36 Special, with mild loads, such as target wad cutters, would be easy for you to handle with your limitaions.

 

[pawncop]

As others have suggested she needs to make several decisions.

Is her interest more than lukewarm?

What does she feel is the most comfortable?

I would suggest a revolver but it is up to her to decide.

 

[SgtLumpy]

Back up. Buy her a copy of Grant Cunningham's Defensive Revolver Fundamentals, Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme, or frankly any good, basic read on the many issues related to carrying for self defense. Suggest she read.

After she's had a chance to digest what carrying really means, see if she's still interested.

My thinking? You guess she's at best perhaps willing to carry in her purse (not a good place to carry), and don't envision her wearing a holster (a better place to carry). That indicates she's not sure yet what carrying entails or if it's for her.

Picking the gun out now is putting the cart before the horse.

This ^^^

Is it HER "lukewarm decision" to want to carry? Or yours/someone else's?

Consider - a 69 y/o handicapped woman with bad hands... Seems like a pretty ideal target for a purse snatcher. Where's that gun?

It's not easy or simple or trivial for a physically fit 20 y/o to carry a gun everywhere. It's REALLY not easy or simple or trivial for anyone, any age, any fitness level to think about shooting another human. It probably is much easier, simpler and less life changing to carry pepper spray.

I'd feel better about anyone capable, practiced and ready to use OC spray over someone with a gun they're not sure of. And to me it wouldn't matter if you were Jerry Mic or Brian Enos or Jeff Cooper, if you had your gun in your purse, I wouldn't feel comfortable.

How about get her shootin'! Take her to the range. Let her shoot your guns. I'll always let range neighbors shoot my guns. Maybe she can shoot some other guns there at the range. If she gets excited about shooting paper, maybe CCW is right for her.

ANYONE can operate a slide on an auto. ANYONE. It has zero to do with hand strength. It's simple leverage. Watch that guy on YouTube with no arms operate his auto including reload. If you can open a door knob or pull open a dresser drawer you can operate a pistol slide.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[S&W45Colt]

I bought my wife a .32 mag J frame, it's six shots vs the five of the 38 special. She enjoys shooting it, she despised shooting the 38 J because of the hand sting. There are quite a few men who do not like 38 J's because of the recoil, much less a woman with hand issues. I'd stay away from the .38 and go with the 22 magnum or the 32. Personally I think the .32 mag is a better self defense caliber when loaded with the Barnes Rounds and the .32 has a shorter trigger than the .22.

JMO

 

[wildenout]

Recoil can be REALLY snappy with the .380 small guns, and they slap your palm like no other. I would suggest a semi heavier J frame, such as a stainless steel one (model 60 for example). Better recoil, no racking, trusted load, and won't really slap her hand around.

 

[Doug M.]

Lots of good points. Most .380s do present an unpleasant recoil impulse as described. A revolver is simpler to explain to a novice or person less comfortable with mechanical devices (like my wife). The problem with J frames is that the sights tend to be ... hard to see, at best, and the trigger on a J frame is hard to get to be as nice as on a K. However, if your wife is like mine, a J frame is as big as can be carried given clothes, physical size, and places she will be going.

However, she is not likely to be shooting at a significant distance, so a pocket carried gun is a good option (purse carry has a lot of flaws, especially for a woman with hand problems, as noted). A revolver can also make a contact shot without running the risk of pushing the slide out of battery.

A .38 with wadcutters is not a bad ballistic choice at all. I carry my J .38 loaded with wadcutters when I carry it. The LG405 grips from Crimson Trace are a bit bigger, but have the extra cushioning which may be worthwhile, plus the laser. I have heard good stuff about the 6 shot .32s as a concept, but have no knowledge of the ballistic options. A .22/.22mag is better than a fervent hope and strong language, even if you hired me to teach it (and I am well qualified ). Given the carry issues that might arise, I strongly advocate the various "Centennial" style J frames, with the completely enclosed backstrap/covered hammer. A lot less chance of crud getting into the action, a lot less chance of snagging.

That said: first she needs to have right mindset. She has to have and display the willingness to use that gun if the time comes. Having it in her hand and not displaying the will could mean she has to use it, or she loses it. THEN, and only then - range time. Try lots of guns, for fit, comfortable shooting, ability to carry.

 

[wildenout]

Trigger job, and upgrade on the front sight (easy to find online or at your local gun smith) and you're good to go on the J frame. I seriously counsel people to be weary of those .380 polymers, the only real good .380 IMO is the Walther PPK, or the Sig (can't remember number) because they are steel.

 

[coach22]

Rather then a trigger job, give her a trigger finger job.
Buy some snap caps.
Have her pull the trigger 25 times every other day.
Her finger will get stronger and the spot
where the trigger drops the hammer will become familiar.
With the 351C or any rimfire,
I'd leave the factory trigger pull alone.
It's that way for a reason.

 

[forrestinmathews]

You know she might just be a good candidate for an eight shot revolver. They can be had pretty light and with moonclips the "bullets" all go in together and come out together. No big mess in a purse and simple for a novice user. It's bigger than those autos you mentioned, but she's got 8 shots to take care of business before any reload would be necessary. Ammo carriers and weapon are big enough not to get lost in a purse if that's applicable. If that's too large then you've got the option to go with a 340 M&P with the crimson trace. That way you only have five shots but that gun is small and fool proof. A handgun of any sort is a compromise. These are just better compromises for the end user described.

I'm not a fan of semi auto pistols for people that don't regularly use them. Too much to go wrong. Too many drills to learn. Too complex of a load and unload procedure. I also believe the .380 and the single stack 9mm to be advanced self defense weapons. You had better be a good marksman and have great recoil management in those light options. You aren't going to solve any problems by pouring on bullets and there's not a lot of ballistic improvements made in a three inch barrel. A .357 loaded with 125gr Hornady XTP hollow points is not going to let you down.