Need to ID k frame pistol for criminal case

Do let us know how it turns out.
But your strategy depends on ignorance by prosecutor and jury because that revolver has been as thoroughly identified as to make, model and age as can be done from the material you provided.
 
Do let us know how it turns out.
But your strategy depends on ignorance by prosecutor and jury because that revolver has been as thoroughly identified as to make, model and age as can be done from the material you provided.
I would hope that any juror knowledgeable enough to know the provenance of that revolver would also be educated on the theory and practice of "jury nullification."
 
It’s not so much relying on ignorance, as much as relying on a lack of time/resources.

The ignorance part you are underestimating, mainly because it’s Massachusetts. I’m willing to bet that at least 80% of prosecutors in the district courts have never held a firearm let alone fired one. The gun laws here have been outrageous for decades and most people who grew up here think if you hold a gun, your house is going to explode (hyperbole but you get the point). The laws here are written by people that have no experience with firearms and enforced by prosecutors that also have no experience with firearms.

You can be in a certain mall in Nashua NH lawfully carrying a glock (aren’t allowed to buy those in MA) with a 17 round magazine. Entirely lawful. However if you walk to the other side of the mall that is over the MA state line, you are now committing a felony that requires a mandatory 18 months in jail for the gun and/or 2.5 years mandatory in state prison for possessing the magazine. If you don’t even have the gun, but have the magazine and no ammo - 2.5 years mandatory state prison. If you have the gun but it’s missing pieces and will never be able to fire again because it’s been run over by a train - mandatory 18 months in jail.

So that’s a long way of saying, the laws don’t make sense and most people here think guns are bad and stay away from them. So there is very much a possibility that a prosecutor will take this case, not have enough trial experience to recognize the flaws in this case, and think a gun is a gun I can prove it’s a gun, and then lose. (Most prosecutors in the district courts, where this case is, are new lawyers with little experience and big chips on their shoulders because they’re new lawyers.)

However the more likely scenario in this case is they hand the firearm back to their expert and then tell them what I’m trying to do. Their ballistics expert will recognize all of the things you have all pointed out, and the prosecutor will either not know how to get any of the information into evidence (inexperience, and it’s harder than it looks on tv) or they will know exactly how to get it into evidence but will not be willing or able to spend the time and resources to do what they need to do go forward with the case. And then the case is dropped.

The last scenario is what I’m banking on.

Thankfully they didn’t close down all the law schools, so I’m familiar with the rules of evidence. All the points that are blatantly obvious to the people on this forum, can’t just be introduced into evidence by some random person. It would take a considerable amount of time to find the right witness, and they would have to pay them. If it was a murder case or something in the superior court, sure they’d take the time to do all that. But it’s not, and lawyers like me, that the one guy would never hire, all have enough trial experience to know that. Which again is why my client hopefully won’t be in a cage for the next year and a half, and that guy would be in prison for having an empty magazine in the back of his truck after paying some billboard attorney too afraid to ask questions…And just an FYI, when I started this thread, my biggest fear was that it in fact was a pre-1900 firearm, cause then all of those problems related to getting this information into evidence would be my problems.

That said, there is one very real surefire way that I can lose this case, that I’m not going to reveal because so far no one has picked up on it yet (meaning the lawyers or judge), and I don’t want to give it away. If this specific issue is flagged, this defense is toast and I’ll have to go with Plan B…
 
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It’s not so much relying on ignorance, as much as relying on a lack of time/resources.

The ignorance part you are underestimating, mainly because it’s Massachusetts. I’m willing to bet that at least 80% of prosecutors in the district courts have never held a firearm let alone fired one. The gun laws here have been outrageous for decades and most people who grew up here think if you hold a gun, your house is going to explode (hyperbole but you get the point). The laws here are written by people that have no experience with firearms and enforced by prosecutors that also have no experience with firearms.

You can be in a certain mall in Nashua NH lawfully carrying a glock (aren’t allowed to buy those in MA) with a 17 round magazine. Entirely lawful. However if you walk to the other side of the mall that is over the MA state line, you are now committing a felony that requires a mandatory 18 months in jail for the gun and/or 2.5 years mandatory in state prison for possessing the magazine. If you don’t even have the gun, but have the magazine and no ammo - 2.5 years mandatory state prison. If you have the gun but it’s missing pieces and will never be able to fire again because it’s been run over by a train - mandatory 18 months in jail.

So that’s a long way of saying, the laws don’t make sense and most people here think guns are bad and stay away from them. So there is very much a possibility that a prosecutor will take this case, not have enough trial experience to recognize the flaws in this case, and think a gun is a gun I can prove it’s a gun, and then lose. (Most prosecutors in the district courts, where this case is, are new lawyers with little experience and big chips on their shoulders because they’re new lawyers.)

However the more likely scenario in this case is they hand the firearm back to their expert and then tell them what I’m trying to do. Their ballistics expert will recognize all of the things you have all pointed out, and the prosecutor will either not know how to get any of the information into evidence (inexperience, and it’s harder than it looks on tv) or they will know exactly how to get it into evidence but will not be willing or able to spend the time and resources to do what they need to do go forward with the case. And then the case is dropped.

The last scenario is what I’m banking on.

Thankfully they didn’t close down all the law schools, so I’m familiar with the rules of evidence. All the points that are blatantly obvious to the people on this forum, can’t just be introduced into evidence by some random person. It would take a considerable amount of time to find the right witness, and they would have to pay them. If it was a murder case or something in the superior court, sure they’d take the time to do all that. But it’s not, and lawyers like me, that the one guy would never hire, all have enough trial experience to know that. Which again is why my client hopefully won’t be in a cage for the next year and a half, and that guy would be in prison for having an empty magazine in the back of his truck after paying some billboard attorney too afraid to ask questions…And just an FYI, when I started this thread, my biggest fear was that it in fact was a pre-1900 firearm, cause then all of those problems related to getting this information into evidence would be my problems.

That said, there is one very real surefire way that I can lose this case, that I’m not going to reveal because so far no one has picked up on it yet (meaning the lawyers or judge), and I don’t want to give it away. If this specific issue is flagged, this defense is toast and I’ll have to go with Plan B…
If I ever need a criminal defense attorney, I hope that he/ she is as dedicated and diligent as you!
 
Note to self: Cancel all plans to visit the S&W factory in Springfield Mass...Especially with my Texas Concealed Handgun License in my wallet and a picture of my guns on my cell phone...No point in taking any chances at my age...:(...Ben
It seems as though some states have, in effect, revolted from the United States of America. I would think that this MA law could be challenged as being unconstitutional.
 
It is. There’s major changes coming in the very near future because of several cases, one of them being mine, that challenged the non resident license requirements

Essentially, if you aren’t a resident of MA you can only get a license to carry under 3 scenarios 1.you're active military/law enforcement, 2. You’re here during hunting season and actively hunting, or 3. You’re attending a shooting competition at a range. That’s it. And none of them have anything to do with self defense or the actual purpose of the second amendment.

NH is a Constitutional carry state, so we had a lot of NH residents ending up down here unexpectedly, getting stopped by police, and them being normal honest and responsible gun owners and telling the police about the firearms. The result would be them getting charged and going to jail for a minimum of 18 months, mostly because they were honest with police which made the cases untriable.

It’s under advisement by our Supreme Court, and most importantly, the NH attorney general joined in on the case on behalf of their citizens. Which is amazing because that all but guarantees if they don’t strike this law, and perhaps other gun laws down, it’s all but certain to get appealed to the US Supreme Court.

My case is no longer part of those cases though. Time ran up for my client and I was forced to take to trial one of those unwinnable cases. Client was told her was going to a shooting range in NH by his brother, who in fact took him to MA for a surprise bachelor party and refused to drive him back to NH. Client got stopped walking the highway back to NH by a trooper, told him what happened and that he had the gun in his bag and was trying to get back to NH. Trooper arrested him.

Tried to get that County’s District Attorney to use some common sense, but she’s one of the biggest villain criminals I know and wanted him to do the 18 months.

Ended up getting a not guilty at trial anyways, on another creative loophole. And the client gave me permission to tell the details of that case, since it was all over the media anyways - before someone jumps down my throat.
 
The ignorance part you are underestimating, mainly because it’s Massachusetts.

If you have the gun but it’s missing pieces and will never be able to fire again because it’s been run over by a train - mandatory 18 months in jail.

Wouldn't that violate the formal definition of a gun/firearm?

Here in the Peoples Republic of California there is a formal definition of a firearm as a device (no mention of the word 'gun') that "expels a projectile through a barrel" and a bit more.

It follows what a rational person would further include as part of a firearm but someone has added the kicker "or a firearm precursor part" to this formal definition".

Missing any of these features or functions, this item is not a firearm.

In your train wreck case I would argue it was a work of art; it transcends the device in question and is similar to "Banana Duct-Taped to Wall" of recent fame.
 
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Well to the first question - the legislature passed this absurd gun legislature amending the gun law that is so insane I don’t have time to explain it - but among the many things it changed, now a fire arm no longer needs to be able to fire, in order to be charged under the firearm laws. Can’t make it up.

Then to make it even worse, we have a law in MA that if enough signatures opposing legislature are gathered, the law is put on pause until the next election in which the citizens are allowed to vote on it. So all of these organizations and unpaid volunteers went around and got the absurd amount of signatures, with absolutely no funding, where the bill was going to be put on pause so the citizens could vote…

And then Governor Healy in the middle of the night declared gun violence a State emergency and was able to put the bill in to law without risking the a citizens voting it down. Quite possibly the most anti-American thing I’ve experienced in a state that really gets off on being the birthplace of the revolutionary war….

To the second question, the don’t use the gun charges to get real criminals to plea and avoid worse penalties. It’s actually the opposite, they use the gun charges to force criminals to plea to whatever they want them to plea to, because if you have any prior violent crime convictions of drug selling convictions, the gun (or ammo) trigger a sentence enhancement.

So instead of 18 months mandatory, if you were convicted of selling weed three times back in the 80s, and they find one bullet in your car, you are now facing a mandatory sentence of 15 years in prison. It’s widely acknowledged that these laws only to oppress poor people. But when you’re facing 15 years, you can’t get any less than 15 unless the government agrees to it - so you end up pleading to whatever it is they tell you to plea to.

There’s a lot of good things about Massachusetts, but the laws here are flawed beyond belief. Luckily a 45 minute drive from Boston is New Hampshire where everything is cheaper, the only tax they have is property tax, and the majority of their laws just about the bare minimum federal laws. Aka you can do whatever you want, for cheaper, and the crime rate is one of the lowest in the country….
 
Ended up getting a not guilty at trial anyways, on another creative loophole. And the client gave me permission to tell the details of that case, since it was all over the media anyways - before someone jumps down my throat.

Good for you. I have not had the experience of a criminal charge, or being sued or suing somebody, but I guarantee you I will hire an attorney if that time comes.

Before I didn't want to post this, but I was wondering if your "blown case" exposure was a "registered" trademark stamp that would date the pistol to the modern era. That is one of the ways I've dated antique catalogs and items. That and zip codes.

Ps. This is one of the more interesting threads and pretty educational.
 
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