Need upgrade advice

[marine6680]

Recently got an M&P, HERE is my intro post in the new member section.



So I really like the way the pistol shoots, it points well and is accurate... Or more appropriately, I am accurate with it.

I just do not care for the feel of the trigger, so I am considering an Apex upgrade.

The thing is, I don't want much more from the trigger, just a little lighter and a better defined break. I can deal with a little stagey feel. Its just that last little bit of pull feels like a sudden steep bump on what was overall a fairly steady incline. The break is a bit mushy and I'll defined, like a twig that flexes a little before it snaps. Its not the smoothest either, but that isn't much of a bother either.

So I am unsure if I should bother with the Apex kit, or maybe just a new Apex sear, or just the replacement trigger.

Maybe after a bit more firing, the trigger will wear in and get better to a point I am happy with. Is that others experience?


Another thing I was looking at is new sights. Not a need, but some tritium sights would be nice.

I seen some Truglo sights that were a hybrid of tritium and fiber optic. I also seen the Ameriglo operators, which are similar to the Trijicon HDs... I like the idea of a blackout look rear sight and high visibility front, with the three dot tritium for night use. I was thinking about dual color as well, seems it would make using the night sights easier.


This pistol is not a primary piece, so I do not want to drop a ton into it... Though it may get front line duty one day. I just want a bit better usability at the range, without taking away from its defense practicality... So not looking for competition like trigger and sights.


Being new to the platform, I am open to comments from those more experienced in the ways M&P.

 

[dajogejr]

Here's what I'm going to tell you, just going through the same thing with my 40c.
If money is tight, get the sear only... It makes the single biggest difference.
For twice as much, you can get the whole DCAEK kit. Keeping in mind, you SHOULD pay a local gun store with the proper sight tool to remove the rear sight so you can install the USB.

I put the Sear, trigger and plunger spring on mine...HUGE difference.
Putting the RAM on just iced the cake and helped with the placebo effect...LOL.

The sear itself, however...will lower the trigger to roughly 4.5lbs.
The spring in the DCAEK kit raises it to 5.5ish...

If you can afford it and have the time, do the whole kit. If you want fast and easy, go with just the sear.

You may have to adjust the sear loop to make sure it fires the striker every time. I didn't have to on mine, but Apex has videos out for all of this that are as easy to follow as anything....

 

[gnystrom]

Why not shoot it a bit before you do anything?
My opinion of my Shield was exactly the same as you are experiencing. I carry this gun a lot, and after about three months of usage I did drop in an Apex sear and a month later AmeriGlo i-Dot sights were installed. Neither were really needed, but the gun shoots better and I felt the changes were a definite improvement. A couple of months shooting with your stock gun will answer your question.

 

[Autococker07]

Why not shoot it a bit before you do anything?
My opinion of my Shield was exactly the same as you are experiencing. I carry this gun a lot, and after about three months of usage I did drop in an Apex sear and a month later AmeriGlo i-Dot sights were installed. Neither were really needed, but the gun shoots better and I felt the changes were a definite improvement. A couple of months shooting with your stock gun will answer your question.

Agree, on this..... dry fire 5-10K while watching TV/ect to see if the trigger beds into a better feel for you (mine did). As others have said, APEX kits are awesome, but you can do you own trigger on an M&P very simply..... check out this link...

S&W M&P Trigger Job

Good luck!

Jim

 

[marine6680]

Wow... Definitely easier than the trigger job I did on my CZ 75.

I probably wouldn't go as far as they did on the sear, probably just a simple polish of the parts. Reliability is my primary concern.

One thing though...

I seen they said the frame pins come out either side, but I seen it mentioned elsewhere that the pins should be removed in one direction.

Which is it?

 

[Rastoff]

The break is a bit mushy and I'll defined, like a twig that flexes a little before it snaps.

Nicely described. I completely agree with this assessment.

Unfortunately, this is the one feature of the trigger that's never going away. I can't definitively prove this, but I think it's due to the trigger bar.

After taking up the slack, the trigger bar loop (the little candy cane at the end of the trigger bar) contacts the sear. As pressure is increased on the trigger, the trigger bar loop starts to slide under the sear. As resistance builds, the trigger bar itself flexes. I believe the "twig that flexes a little before it snaps" feeling is the trigger bar flexing.

I've installed the Apex Forward Set Sear (FSS) kit. The improvement is dramatic. Very little slack, no over travel and very crisp break. Alas, the mushy feel is still there. It's not bad, but it is there.

Until we invent a stiffer trigger bar, that feeling will remain. At least that's my opinion.

 

[Rastoff]

I seen they said the frame pins come out either side, but I seen it mentioned elsewhere that the pins should be removed in one direction.

Which is it?

Push from either side. The only things that need to be pushed a particular direction are the sights; left to right to remove and right to left to install.

 

[dixie_boysles]

Yup the TFOs are the way to go!

 

[marine6680]

Got it figured out.

Did my own trigger job... took about an hour stoning the parts and buffing them.


I polished the sear where it meets the trigger bar, and where it engages the striker. Also the loop on the trigger bar, and the striker block engagement tab on the trigger bar.

I did a slight re-profile of the sear to remover the last 25% or so of the camming. Maybe a few thou removed. I also smoothed out the sear where the trigger bar rides, it was not true. I squared the striker, as it was not completely even across the interface area.

Tested, and the sear broke with about 1/32 inch of travel to the over travel stop at least a 75% reduction from stock. Worst case, pulling from the bottom of the trigger, the trigger had about 1/64 inch of travel. I tweaked the trigger bar loop a little and increased the over travel, as reliability is the first priority. Now it has about 50% less than it was stock. Even worst case, pulling the trigger from the very bottom gives about 1/32 of travel.


My calibrated finger says the pull is about a pound to a pound and a half lighter, around 5-5.5lb pull. It has smoothed out a good deal, but not completely, as I was unable to do anything with the striker block plunger.


Overall, I am happy with how it turned out.

 

[tectrry]

After a couple thousand rounds through my full size 9 and 40c, I decided to get the Apex poly trigger on both and the sear for the full size but the compact didn't need the sear by then. I love the feel of the poly trigger, but it doesn't change the function. They both feel/function exactly like I want them to. Everyone is different but between shooting it a bunch and a few Apex parts here and there, I'm sure you can tune it to be exactly what you want it to be.

 

[sgmann69]

Apex sear with XS Big Dot sights. Enough said.

 

[p602900]

Unless you let Apex do the entire trigger job, there is no way to compare your personal trigger job results to the best available. Apex knows the M&P inside out. They will set your factory trigger at any pull you want down to about 2-1/2 pounds. I really don't see the point in a higher trigger pull unless it is required by your department. 7 yard groups shrink to under 1-1/2 inches, as you no longer need to work the trigger. Additionally, Apex test fires your gun so that you don't have to worry about centering the rear sight. They send you their test fire target as shot from your gun. My two cents here is that talking about partial jobs, as compared to completely finished trigger jobs, is certainly not comparing apples to apples. You will never be sad you spent Apex's labor charge to alter your gun. At their rates, you get more than you pay for and no worries about functioning problems.

 

[marine6680]

Oh no... I am far from a pro.

I have skill, but no setup like the pros do. They have tools and equipment I never will. Not to mention more experience with the platform.


Is my home solution as good as theirs? No... very much no.

Did it make me happier with the trigger? Yes... After some more shooting, I will decide if I want to upgrade or not.


Polishing a few parts isn't hard, its changing the geometries that can get you in trouble very quickly. I will stick with drop ins from Apex if I decide to do more to the trigger. I am not going to go do major reshaping by hand.

 

[marine6680]

Thanks for all the replies and help guys.


I got bored and did a makeshift trigger pull gauge. Used a wash bucket with a plastic sleeve on the handle, close to finger size. It engaged the trigger well and activated the trigger safety without being too close to the end and skewing the results.

I did it several times and got an average of 5.5lb.

The more I feel it, the better I like it. I think it worked in a bit after a several pulls. There is a little bump in the pull from the plunger, but its smoothed out a lot from the polishing of the trigger bar engagement tab. Pull the trigger after the striker has fell, and it you can feel just a slight bump from the plunger, but its pretty smooth.

I use a light grease on all the parts that touch... trigger bar, sear and striker, and it seems to help as well.