Need your knowledge.? 38/44

glocknroll

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Not sure what its worth or year" Its a 38/44 s&w, 5"barrel, SER# 468xx has swept back hammer, ajustible rear site, has a "king' pat pend front ramp site,with high visiblity red square . Gun is a solid 85 to 90%, maybe less than 100 rounds through it. THANKS MUCH !
 

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Very nice! I believe that is a Pre war model Outdoorsman with a humpback hammer. With all the upgrades on that one it'll be a good one to have. Looks closer to 95% or better.

Edit, Bill can help you a lot more than me! But I like it!
 
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It could be a McGivern Model 38/44 OUtdoorsman. It has a humpback hammer and I can't comment on whether it is original or not. It was not usual for the factory to roll mark the barrel and have the front sight cover part of it up. Those that own them may be able to help you more. If it is a McGivern model, it could be worth many thousands. Probably 1935 on the ship date.
Hope this helps,
Bill
 
Looks to me like a target modified 5" Heavy Duty. Very cool gun! Probably made around 1935, and probably modified not too long after that. Do the grips serial number to the gun?

BTW, the experts should be here shortly...

EDIT: I defer to Bill.....
 
I show two in the upper 46xxx range in my list - one 7/35, the other 10/35 (closest your SN). Someone more familiar than I as to current ODM values from that period will have to address that topic.
 
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Looks to me like a target modified 5" Heavy Duty. Very cool gun! Probably made around 1935, and probably modified not too long after that. Do the grips serial number to the gun?

BTW, the experts should be here shortly...

EDIT: I defer to Bill.....

No markings on grips..? must be original to the gun, no marks or sign of other type of grip. thanks buddy"
 
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You would need to remove the grips to see the serial number, should be stamped or written in pencil inside the right side grip. If they don't come off easily, unscrew then the screw as much as possible, then push down on the screw with the screwdriver and try to pop the right side grip off.
 
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Did the Outdoorsman have grooved grip straps from the beginning? This one looks to have a smooth backstrap.
 
Did king install S&W factory rear sight or their own? Would the sight number if it was a factory install and not number if it was a modified heavy duty?

THAT GUN NEEDS A LETTER.
 
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Take the right hand grip and look at it in different light. The serial number should be written in pencil above the screw hole. It will be very faint, ambient light is best. Try different angles as well.

Great looking gun with humpback hammer and what looks like a factory rear sight.

May take sometime to get but send for a factory letter...
 
that gun looks great! I believe King manufactured some rear sights that look very close to factory style. At the very least, King modified the rear sight assembly by dishing out a portion of the metal so that any of their rear sight blades (u-notch, square notch, etc, etc) could be seen in full.

This guns rear sight looks just like mine; except I dont think this gun has a white outline, or at least I cant see it.

 
Whatever it is (modified HD, or McGivern OD), it's a great gun gun - HBH and King sights! The only thing better would be a pair of pre war magnas or Ropers.
I'm certainly no expert, but the smooth back strap makes me think it started life as a Heavy Duty.

Thank you for posting pictures of your unique gun. This will be a good thread to watch.
 
Definitely worth a letter. Prewar ODs with King modifications are a class of collectible in their own right.

The humpback hammer did not become available until 1938, so if this gun shipped as early as the frame number allows, it would have left the factory with a standard long-action hammer. If you feel like pulling the sideplate, I would be curious to know whether King marked the inner surface.

DP9U0852_zps07c89aa7.jpg


This is the only King-marked sideplate that I have come across. I don't know if 1941 is a year or a job sequence number.

That sideplate is mounted on this gun, 46207, a McGivern OD that letters with the five inch barrel.

DP9U0839_zps9a0b5dbe.jpg


This revolver's action has been modified to shorten the hammer throw: the hammer stud has been relocated slightly. This mod was initiated in the 1930s by J.D. Buchanan, a Los Angeles gunsmith. King eventually offered a similar short hammer throw option that involved no modification to the lockwork but was achieved with a drop-in redesigned hammer.

This gun was previously discussed in this thread, in case anyone wants to compare similarities and dissimilarities to the gun in the original post.

A King-Marked McGivern Outdoorsman with Shortened Hammer Throw

I think it is possible and perhaps even likely that the OP's gun left the factory as a McGivern Outdooorsman and that King later modified it at customer request. Fine specimen.

Glocknroll, would you be willing to PM me the full serial number for my data base? I track McGivern ODs, and I'd like to follow this one's number as a candidate for membership in the list once its status is confirmed. At the moment I know three dozen specimens, some not seen but known to have existed from records. The next lower serial number known on a McGivern OD is 46687, and the next higher number 54742. There are four confirmed McGivern ODs in the 46xxx group. If validated, yours would be number five in that range.
 
That gun is a real jewel. I'd imagine you would have a real bidding war on your hands if you ever looked to sell it. If you do letter it I will be fascinated to find out what the history on it is.
 
A few more questions for the OP: Is the grip frame grooved on the forestrap and backstrap? On my computer the pictures are too dark to make that out. BUFF asked that question above and the answer is important. In general, target revolvers have grooved grip frames and fixed-sight service revolvers do not.

With the stocks off, do you see a number stamp like 11.40 (for November, 1940) down near the toe of the grip frame on the left side? Guns that went back to the factory for additional work usually have that stamp.

Is there an S or R stamp visible inside the ejector rod shroud when the cylinder has been swung out? Sometimes such a mark can indicate a barrel replacement by the service department. Is the gun's serial number also found stamped inside the ejector rod shroud? It should be there as well as on the rear face of the cylinder.

I don't think it was explicitly stated above, but almost all of the prewar .38/44 target revolvers (the Outdoorsman model) had 6.5 inch barrels. That's why we are kicking around the idea of a barrel replacement, a barrel shortening, or a conversion of what was originally a Heavy Duty (fixed sight .38/44) to target configuration, either by S&W or by King.
 
looks like "B" stamp then ser# behind ejector rod. smooth back strap. 2400 stamped on frame & hindge when cylinder is open..? thanks buddy
 
looks like "B" stamp then ser# behind ejector rod. smooth back strap. 2400 stamped on frame & hindge when cylinder is open..? thanks buddy

All that sounds normal, the 2400 is the assembly number used to keep the parts together during manufacture. With the smooth backstrap, the gun was originally shipped as a 5" 38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sights). I would guess that a former owner sent the gun to King for the modifications.

Very neat gun
 
All that sounds normal, the 2400 is the assembly number used to keep the parts together during manufacture. With the smooth backstrap, the gun was originally shipped as a 5" 38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sights). I would guess that a former owner sent the gun to King for the modifications.

Very neat gun

I would agree with this,The smooth backstrap points to a fixed sight duty Gun(38/44 HD) that has been converted to a target Gun.
 
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