Needed 9mm Firearm Advice / Opinions
- Thread starter Rhetorician
- Start date
jonny13sb
Member
One way to beat high retail prices and sales tax is to shop for a used firearm of higher quality. The majority of my collection was purchased used and all of them function very well. I believe that most people don't shoot their guns enough to even come close to wearing them out before they change hands.
For arthritis reasons, I need a slim profile grip. Glocks came and went quickly, as did the FNx. Both for grip reasons.
I own a Shield 9 & VP9. After some trips to the factory, the Shield is now top notch, and I will happily shoot it as a range gun.
The VP9 has been flawless out of the box. Excellent range gun. A guy in the next lane asked about it, I let him shoot it, he went to the counter and bought one. Wish I got a commission. hrmph.
I own a Shield 9 & VP9. After some trips to the factory, the Shield is now top notch, and I will happily shoot it as a range gun.
The VP9 has been flawless out of the box. Excellent range gun. A guy in the next lane asked about it, I let him shoot it, he went to the counter and bought one. Wish I got a commission. hrmph.
First I would identify my motivation or purpose for buying a 9mm. Yes, the ammo is cheaper then even a 380. But, if you have a great gun with 9mm, you would probably like the caliper. If you have a cheap gun, chances are you will not like it. I personally shoot a Sig P226 Mk25 which was mentioned earlier for 9mm mostly. I love the gun and the caliper. But, I have also shot a K-tec in 9mm also. I found it to be horrible. If that was the only experience I had with 9mm, I would have a very negative attitude toward 9mm. And it wouldn't be justified.
buying a gun in the 200 range is not really realistic goal for a quality gun, unless you are an FFL or have a family member that is.
Perhaps you may wish to check out places like Bud's where they have make an offer deals. I just looked and I found some name brand striker fired guns that you should be able to offer less then 300. They have a Kahr CW9 listed at 333.00, but they could take less. I know people that own them and love them.
There are also 1911s in 9mm that might work for you...
buying a gun in the 200 range is not really realistic goal for a quality gun, unless you are an FFL or have a family member that is.
Perhaps you may wish to check out places like Bud's where they have make an offer deals. I just looked and I found some name brand striker fired guns that you should be able to offer less then 300. They have a Kahr CW9 listed at 333.00, but they could take less. I know people that own them and love them.
There are also 1911s in 9mm that might work for you...
Biggfoot44
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My first observation is that tou already of a herd of small guns that you like. For this next one expand the breadth of your stable.
In broadest terms , think in terms of +/- 4in bbl , and a handle that all of your fingers will fit upon. Depending on who is making the catagories , this would be either a large-ish compact , or a small-ish service size. Big emough to be pleasant to shoot , yet still concealable with a decent holster.
$200 is not a worthwhile number.
There are a boatload of new 9mm postols with dealer shelf prices of -/- $400. If that price range doesn't suit your thinking , reconnsider your budget , or consider putting off this one until later.
If you drop down to the close to $300 range in used pistols , you can find some viable pistols , but the choices will be slim , and might not include what fits you best. Used Sigmas and Used Ruger P Series are plentiful , or various individual examples of misc imports / milsurp/ C&R are out there , but more a matter of watching and waiting for what becomes available at $300 than seeking a specific (whatever).
I could tell you that Biggfoot would lean towrds a trade-in LE Glock 17 , Argentine HiPower , CZ-75 family clone, or Stoger Cougar, or whatever quirky C&R cought my eye while browsing. The orthodox S&W collector's responce would be an SD , or a 3rd Gen
But you're not me , and what I like/ fits me , might not be what you like/ fits you..
In broadest terms , think in terms of +/- 4in bbl , and a handle that all of your fingers will fit upon. Depending on who is making the catagories , this would be either a large-ish compact , or a small-ish service size. Big emough to be pleasant to shoot , yet still concealable with a decent holster.
$200 is not a worthwhile number.
There are a boatload of new 9mm postols with dealer shelf prices of -/- $400. If that price range doesn't suit your thinking , reconnsider your budget , or consider putting off this one until later.
If you drop down to the close to $300 range in used pistols , you can find some viable pistols , but the choices will be slim , and might not include what fits you best. Used Sigmas and Used Ruger P Series are plentiful , or various individual examples of misc imports / milsurp/ C&R are out there , but more a matter of watching and waiting for what becomes available at $300 than seeking a specific (whatever).
I could tell you that Biggfoot would lean towrds a trade-in LE Glock 17 , Argentine HiPower , CZ-75 family clone, or Stoger Cougar, or whatever quirky C&R cought my eye while browsing. The orthodox S&W collector's responce would be an SD , or a 3rd Gen
But you're not me , and what I like/ fits me , might not be what you like/ fits you..
I saw a 3rd gen......
I picked it up and immediately said, "Hey, I like this." Firing the first mag was a little tricky with the DAO trigger. By the second mag I loved it and wouldn't part with it. They really are that good.
I picked it up and immediately said, "Hey, I like this." Firing the first mag was a little tricky with the DAO trigger. By the second mag I loved it and wouldn't part with it. They really are that good.
OP
Rhetorician
Member
Rhetorician Response
I thank all of you for the thoughtful and quick answers. The Beretta 92s was mentioned I think as I read through the posts? Palmetto State has Italian police trade ins for a goodly price. See hyperlink below:
Beretta 92S Italian Police Trade In's 9mm
What think ye of this as an entry level?
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Hello all:
I have been playing "internal mental tennis" for a while. You know, "should I buy-or should I not but" a new gun or caliber or whatever it might be. You know that internal debate we all have from time to time.
I have been considering something in a 9mm for a long while; revolvers, micros, just a little bit of everything. Pro: the 9mm is probably the cheapest thing one can shoot if you do not load yourself. And I do not see that in my future. Con: buying another caliber weapon is somewhat like having a new baby or getting another hunting dog--just another mouth to feed.
My point is this, I was wondering what might be a good option so I will not have to spend too much on the front end to see if I like the caliber or no? I am not sure I want a "micro" anything. I carry a Taurus 738 380acp (that I might add runs flawlessly), Ruger LCR 357, and a Smith Model 360PD Scandium in my rotation. Any Micro 9s "kinda-sorta" defeat the purpose of my time and money to buy at this point of my internal discussion. Would not make a good range gun IMHO.
So, I was thinking of a SCCY or a Hi Point??!! The HP can be bought for about 1/2 of the SCCY. Both, as appraised by those on some other gun boards, are either "love-um" or "hate-um" responses.
I am leaning towards the HP. I have a friend who has the 40 and the 45, and they both run flawlessly. Heavy as a boat anchor. Ugly as a mud fence. Then the SCCY does not have as good of reviews as the HP. But it sure is "purdy" by comparison.
These are my thoughts!
Yours?
rd
I thank all of you for the thoughtful and quick answers. The Beretta 92s was mentioned I think as I read through the posts? Palmetto State has Italian police trade ins for a goodly price. See hyperlink below:
Beretta 92S Italian Police Trade In's 9mm
What think ye of this as an entry level?
Thoughts?
Thanks!
ColbyBruce
Member
I love Beretta firearms
I own a Italian made Beretta 92FS Inox. It is the fourth 92 series pistol I have owned. They are wonderful pistols.
That said, the 92 was designed as a belt worn sidearm, not a CCW. It is large and thick, and is best concealed in a wheelbarrow. The front sight is integral with the slide and not replaceable, though some variations had dove-tailed sights. The model you listed has the mag release on the bottom of the stock instead of the frame. Some mags are made to work with both types, some mags are specific. In general, parts, mags, and holsters should be plentiful. The gun has a excellent reputation around the world. One drawback I should mention is that some folks tend to engage the safety when racking the slide; an error that may cost one's life in a combat or self defense situation. The "G" model corrected that issue.
Here is a photo of my Beretta with a Sig P226 to compare size.
I own a Italian made Beretta 92FS Inox. It is the fourth 92 series pistol I have owned. They are wonderful pistols.
That said, the 92 was designed as a belt worn sidearm, not a CCW. It is large and thick, and is best concealed in a wheelbarrow. The front sight is integral with the slide and not replaceable, though some variations had dove-tailed sights. The model you listed has the mag release on the bottom of the stock instead of the frame. Some mags are made to work with both types, some mags are specific. In general, parts, mags, and holsters should be plentiful. The gun has a excellent reputation around the world. One drawback I should mention is that some folks tend to engage the safety when racking the slide; an error that may cost one's life in a combat or self defense situation. The "G" model corrected that issue.
Here is a photo of my Beretta with a Sig P226 to compare size.
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the Beretta is nice at that price u cant go wrong i had one but now i have a sig 226
policerevolvercollector
Member
I thank all of you for the thoughtful and quick answers. The Beretta 92s was mentioned I think as I read through the posts? Palmetto State has Italian police trade ins for a goodly price. See hyperlink below:
Beretta 92S Italian Police Trade In's 9mm
What think ye of this as an entry level?
Thoughts?
Thanks!
These Berettas are fine pistols and that is a very nice price. However, and this is not necessarily a problem, these trade ins have the European "heel"mag release that takes a little getting used to.
I'll echo comments from other posters. Save a few extra dollars and buy a used Glock 17 or 19. If you don't like it, they'll hold their value and resale is easy. These are some of the most reliable and versitile pistols ever made.
I had to use a search engine for SCCY, and I don't know what the Hi Point looks like. If I was looking for a low cost 9mm single stack, I'd go with the Kel-Tec. I had one and had no complaints. Just got to where I never carried or shot it, and moved it out of the safe.
Price range? That was the point and maybe I did not make it clear enough in the OP.
I wanted to spend just a couple of hundred bucks. I know, I know all of the arguments!!!
But I am not sure I want to spend a bunch of $$$$ for a caliber I may not even want or like or keep.
I am a wheel man and stuck on the 357 /38 /38 +p calibers. Have 4 all total with 2 of them being Smiths. (I must say if I had not bought the two Smiths for a song I would not own them or be on this board!!! But there is that special something about a Smith no doubt!).
You will not believe what I have been reading and studying this AM just now. I have been reading and watching videos on the Zastava M70s and M88s. They can be had new for about $250 in some quarters.
I seem to like and am drawn to the quirky guns. Just a character flaw I guess. Major purpose of the purchase would be just to see if I want to play in the 9mm pool or not. I am afraid that some of the present discussions are many, many $$$$ over my head.
Just some clarification thoughts.
Opinions?
Thanks,
rd
I offered my advice earlier, but after thinking about it and re-reading this post, I have a question . . . If you buy a cheap 9mm handgun, and it doesn't run, will that turn you off the caliber, or just the maker of the handgun? The likelihood that a cheap 9mm handgun won't make you happy is pretty high, so given your parameters, I recommend staying with what ya' brung.
ColbyBruce
Member
To clarify on the European style "heel" mag release I attached a photo of my old $12.50 + tax Beretta 70 .32 a.c.p. This plainly shows the mag release on the bottom of the left stock and the corresponding notch on the bottom right side of the magazine.
jonny13sb
Member
For Muss Muggins; a Hi-Point looks like a steel Zeppelin with handgun grips. Elephantiasis of the slide for sure.
LVSteve
Member
Lol. Good description, but the bulk is there for a good reason. Being a pure blowback design, the slide mass much be bigger than on a locked breech pistol.
jonny13sb
Member
Hi-Point should have tried a little harder, my 70 year old Astra 600/43 is straight blowback 9mm pistol that is quite stylish and functional.
Will Carry
Member
If you want a Hi-Point then by all means buy one. They are not a bad pistol for the price and they have a great warranty.
OP
Rhetorician
Member
Rhetorician Response
Thanks Muss,
I thought of the Kel Tec. But I want something more or less for a range gun and not for everyday carry. I have three of them already in my rotation.
I have always wanted (I think I want anyway?) a 9mm. I want to explore the caliber so I do not want to invest a bunch of money per se.
I think the Kel Tec 9 would be too light to use at the range for much fun time. Too snappy! I have a Taurus 738 380 and it is a great carry piece but not one I would want to put 100s of rounds through as a range gun.
My thoughts!
Yours?
Thanks,
rd
Thanks Muss,
I thought of the Kel Tec. But I want something more or less for a range gun and not for everyday carry. I have three of them already in my rotation.
I have always wanted (I think I want anyway?) a 9mm. I want to explore the caliber so I do not want to invest a bunch of money per se.
I think the Kel Tec 9 would be too light to use at the range for much fun time. Too snappy! I have a Taurus 738 380 and it is a great carry piece but not one I would want to put 100s of rounds through as a range gun.
My thoughts!
Yours?
Thanks,
rd
ColbyBruce
Member
The Beretta 92 would be a great gun for most any purpose, other than concealing in a Speedo. With shipping and FFL fees, you would be near the $300.00 mark. Inquire about buying spare mags at the same time.
I had a Galco Combat Master CM202(?) holster with my 92F. It rode high on the belt, hugged close to my body, and was very tight and secure.
I had a Galco Combat Master CM202(?) holster with my 92F. It rode high on the belt, hugged close to my body, and was very tight and secure.
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Some great advice here.......
Me I would save up another $100-200 haunt the LGSs looking for a good used handgun from; S&W,CZ, Beretta, Sig, Glock, etc.
Great way to see and handle some options..... and good deals are out there to be had.....just not everyday...... these days a Police trade is generally a good deal...... carried daily but not shot a lot!!
I hear that HPs do work........ but it won't tell you much about the 9mm round.... as it is a blow-back vs. lock breach design ......... which is rare in a 9mm...... fact is I can't think of another..... OH ya the Beretta CX-4 a 9mm carbine.......
Good Luck......
Me I would save up another $100-200 haunt the LGSs looking for a good used handgun from; S&W,CZ, Beretta, Sig, Glock, etc.
Great way to see and handle some options..... and good deals are out there to be had.....just not everyday...... these days a Police trade is generally a good deal...... carried daily but not shot a lot!!
I hear that HPs do work........ but it won't tell you much about the 9mm round.... as it is a blow-back vs. lock breach design ......... which is rare in a 9mm...... fact is I can't think of another..... OH ya the Beretta CX-4 a 9mm carbine.......
Good Luck......
LVSteve
Member
Other straight blowbacks in 9mm
All 9mm carbines except the HK MP-5. This includes ARs and Ruger PC-9s.
Astra 600
HK VP-70
Many submachine guns appear to use straight blowback, but are almost always Advanced Primer Ignition designs.
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PeterPocket
Member
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Walther PPX for a range gun. Better trigger than a Glock. CDNN Sports still has them on sale for $279 w/ 2 16-rd mags. Best gun deal under the sun.
DON'T buy a Hi-Point. Please.
SCCY's sell wholesale for $235. Pro. They have the longest trigger travel in creation. Con. They have the best customer service and lifetime, non-nonsense warranties that stay with the gun. Pro. Owners like them better that Kel-Tec P-11's. Pro. They will fit just about any holster made. Pro.
They are not ugly sledgehammers like Hi-Points. Pro.
They just went off sale for $218. Darn.
There's a new website analogous to WikiAmmo called WikiArms that finds the cheapest prices on the guns you want.
Check it out.
r
BTW, Galloway sells an RTK trigger replacement for the SCCY as well as an 18lb recoil spring and stainless steel guide rod. The trigger travel isn't shortened but it does eliminate "trigger slap" and will give you the smooth feel of an LCR trigger.
DON'T buy a Hi-Point. Please.
SCCY's sell wholesale for $235. Pro. They have the longest trigger travel in creation. Con. They have the best customer service and lifetime, non-nonsense warranties that stay with the gun. Pro. Owners like them better that Kel-Tec P-11's. Pro. They will fit just about any holster made. Pro.
They are not ugly sledgehammers like Hi-Points. Pro.
They just went off sale for $218. Darn.
There's a new website analogous to WikiAmmo called WikiArms that finds the cheapest prices on the guns you want.
Check it out.
r
BTW, Galloway sells an RTK trigger replacement for the SCCY as well as an 18lb recoil spring and stainless steel guide rod. The trigger travel isn't shortened but it does eliminate "trigger slap" and will give you the smooth feel of an LCR trigger.
Hello all:
I have been playing "internal mental tennis" for a while. You know, "should I buy-or should I not but" a new gun or caliber or whatever it might be. You know that internal debate we all have from time to time.
I have been considering something in a 9mm for a long while; revolvers, micros, just a little bit of everything. Pro: the 9mm is probably the cheapest thing one can shoot if you do not load yourself. And I do not see that in my future. Con: buying another caliber weapon is somewhat like having a new baby or getting another hunting dog--just another mouth to feed.
My point is this, I was wondering what might be a good option so I will not have to spend too much on the front end to see if I like the caliber or no? I am not sure I want a "micro" anything. I carry a Taurus 738 380acp (that I might add runs flawlessly), Ruger LCR 357, and a Smith Model 360PD Scandium in my rotation. Any Micro 9s "kinda-sorta" defeat the purpose of my time and money to buy at this point of my internal discussion. Would not make a good range gun IMHO.
So, I was thinking of a SCCY or a Hi Point??!! The HP can be bought for about 1/2 of the SCCY. Both, as appraised by those on some other gun boards, are either "love-um" or "hate-um" responses.
I am leaning towards the HP. I have a friend who has the 40 and the 45, and they both run flawlessly. Heavy as a boat anchor. Ugly as a mud fence. Then the SCCY does not have as good of reviews as the HP. But it sure is "purdy" by comparison.
These are my thoughts!
Yours?
rd
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Arik
Member
The gun will dictate if you like the caliber. A small light gun will have more recoil a larger one is easier too shoot. Another thing is I wouldn't buy some cheap junk just to see if I like it...again, not a good way to see if you like something
I was in the same fix about 15 years ago. My Luger was too valuable to use anymore so I was looking for a 9 that I could afford. I picked up a real nice Ruger P-95 in the box. Double action with the hammer drop safety. A real clunker to carry but built tough & shoots very well. It digests everything I put down range, reloads, factory ,foreign without a hiccup.
ky wonder
US Veteran
I use to think that you could not give me a hi point until I looked at some videos on YouTube that show some guys trying to destroy one of them.
they did everything that could be done and literally had to go to a test that no gun would stand up to get it to blow up
the gun proved accurate and safe with any ammo,
they are ugly as any gun I ever seen, they sell locally here new in the $160 range, and after watching those videos if that is all that I could afford, that is what I would buy
if you can save up into the 320-350 range you should be able to get a new Smith and Wesson SV9 which is an improvement on there sigma platform,
also there is a Turkish gun, the Tigas Zigana K9mm that is a pretty close clone of the Sig Sauer 226, it will even accept the sig mags
they can be found in the 325 range
and several other striker fired guns in that 350 range such as the Taurus pt series
my 9mm is a glock 17L, but that will set you back 750 if you can find one
but
they did everything that could be done and literally had to go to a test that no gun would stand up to get it to blow up
the gun proved accurate and safe with any ammo,
they are ugly as any gun I ever seen, they sell locally here new in the $160 range, and after watching those videos if that is all that I could afford, that is what I would buy
if you can save up into the 320-350 range you should be able to get a new Smith and Wesson SV9 which is an improvement on there sigma platform,
also there is a Turkish gun, the Tigas Zigana K9mm that is a pretty close clone of the Sig Sauer 226, it will even accept the sig mags
they can be found in the 325 range
and several other striker fired guns in that 350 range such as the Taurus pt series
my 9mm is a glock 17L, but that will set you back 750 if you can find one
but
Biggfoot44
Member
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The Berreta M92 is a fine gun , and that is a good price for one.
That said , I don't like them. The way they feel in *my* hand , and the balance just don't agree with me. Lots of people feel otherwise , but it is a bit of an either love or hate design. Fondle , and preferably shoot one yourself. If you like it , it would be a good gun for the money for you.
That said , I don't like them. The way they feel in *my* hand , and the balance just don't agree with me. Lots of people feel otherwise , but it is a bit of an either love or hate design. Fondle , and preferably shoot one yourself. If you like it , it would be a good gun for the money for you.
OP
Rhetorician
Member
Rhetorician Response #2
Okay, Okay!
Just gotta get this question in here. I have been reading, researching, went to the LGS this AM and am trying to assimilate all of this data gathered on the 9mm.
I have come full circle back to the Smith DV 9mm. I understand it is a replacement for the Sigma series--and they had some "issues."
So let me hear the "skinny" on the DV 9mm. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
Please let me hear the truth even though it is a question about a Smith on the Smith Board. I know I can trust you guys.
"That is all!"
rd
Follow up PS question: Which one of the semi autos had the plastic guide rod? Am I to stay away from it? Other issues?
Hello all:
I have been playing "internal mental tennis" for a while. You know, "should I buy-or should I not but" a new gun or caliber or whatever it might be. You know that internal debate we all have from time to time.
I have been considering something in a 9mm for a long while; revolvers, micros, just a little bit of everything. Pro: the 9mm is probably the cheapest thing one can shoot if you do not load yourself. And I do not see that in my future. Con: buying another caliber weapon is somewhat like having a new baby or getting another hunting dog--just another mouth to feed.
My point is this, I was wondering what might be a good option so I will not have to spend too much on the front end to see if I like the caliber or no? I am not sure I want a "micro" anything. I carry a Taurus 738 380acp (that I might add runs flawlessly), Ruger LCR 357, and a Smith Model 360PD Scandium in my rotation. Any Micro 9s "kinda-sorta" defeat the purpose of my time and money to buy at this point of my internal discussion. Would not make a good range gun IMHO.
So, I was thinking of a SCCY or a Hi Point??!! The HP can be bought for about 1/2 of the SCCY. Both, as appraised by those on some other gun boards, are either "love-um" or "hate-um" responses.
I am leaning towards the HP. I have a friend who has the 40 and the 45, and they both run flawlessly. Heavy as a boat anchor. Ugly as a mud fence. Then the SCCY does not have as good of reviews as the HP. But it sure is "purdy" by comparison.
These are my thoughts!
Yours?
rd
Okay, Okay!
Just gotta get this question in here. I have been reading, researching, went to the LGS this AM and am trying to assimilate all of this data gathered on the 9mm.
I have come full circle back to the Smith DV 9mm. I understand it is a replacement for the Sigma series--and they had some "issues."
So let me hear the "skinny" on the DV 9mm. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
Please let me hear the truth even though it is a question about a Smith on the Smith Board. I know I can trust you guys.
"That is all!"
rd
Follow up PS question: Which one of the semi autos had the plastic guide rod? Am I to stay away from it? Other issues?
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LVSteve
Member
Plastic guide rods are a non-issue IMHO.
Malpasowildlifer
Member
I'd save and get a Sig p226, P228 or 229 in 9mm; new or used. Used models can be found for a decent price.
JaPes
Member
The S&W SD9 VE is a good choice. I don't own one, but I have had the opportunity over the years to shoot every iteration of that gun: SD9, 9VE, now the SD9VE. I never liked any of the SD9VE's predecessors, but I do like the new one.
Regarding plastic guide rods, it's not an issue.
Regarding plastic guide rods, it's not an issue.
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