Negligent Discharge - Happens in an instant!

[Hodgin]

Snap caps for dry firing would help minimize the chances of that type of ND.

I had a ND when I was about 12-13 yrs old. It was with a semi-auto shotgun while shooting trap. My dad, a friend of his, and I were shooting. My dad was behind me and the friend was in the trap house. The friend needed to do some housecleaning, opening new box of clays or clearing out some broken ones, and told me to wait. I didn't put the gun back on safety and must have had my finger on the trigger as I supported the gun on my thigh. When I put it on my thigh it went off. Luckily it was pointed at about a 45 degree or so angle.

Other than a sore thigh and a lot of verbal abuse I made it. Fortunately, that experience may have prevented a more serious ND on down the road. If I ever have another one (at my age), my gun slinging days are over.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Everyone, I mean everyone has a brain fart every now and then. I just don't understand why there are so many concealed carry forum members that won't concede that there's an elevated risk for a ND when carrying a hot semi auto that doesn't have a manual safety or at least a DA pull. Must be arrogance I guess.

This is a cop out. Gun type doesn't matter. Observe the rules 100% of the time and ND's won't happen.

Elevated risk comes from not paying attention to what you're doing.

I do NOT believe that everyone will have an ND.

 

[Krogen]

Hi, My name is Krogen and I've had a negligent discharge. You are not alone and I respect you for 'fessing up. We can all learn from others' hard lessons. Following the NRA's or Cooper's well-known sets of safety rules can mitigate the effects of an accident when or if something goes wrong.

In my case it was a Contender in .357 Herrett. I was standing at the firing line talking to a buddy. I was holding the gun pointed downrange. It was open and empty. As we got ready to resume firing, I absentmindedly thumbed back the hammer. Upon commence fire, I dropped a round in and snapped the action shut. The jarring dropped the hammer and a bullet sailed downrange. Cooper's rule #2 saved the day. I was never able to get the gun to drop its hammer (on an empty chamber) that way again. I have no idea what happened, but I do know two malfunctions occurred; the sear and my brain. It can and does happen, folks. Just be sure to follow all four rules and we'll all go home at the end of the day.

 

[Protected One]

It happened to me a couple of years ago, no one hurt but it really scared me. It was a 1911 style 9MM that had the mag out and I was "testing" the trigger while on the way to my basement to work on the thing.

There is a site about ND that I've bookmarked and I visit it fairly often, Negligent, not accidental discharge and the resulting gunshot wounds That person was seriously injured and posted every step of his recovery w/photos. It's cured my desire for another race gun.

What is a race gun?

 

[kbm6893]

This is a cop out. Gun type doesn't matter. Observe the rules 100% of the time and ND's won't happen.

Elevated risk comes from not paying attention to what you're doing.

I do NOT believe that everyone will have an ND.

Depends. If you're a casual gun owner who shoots a box a year it's unlikely simply because the gun is rarely out. Bill Jordan had one and killed a guy. Over a dozen on a gun forum, who are not virgins when it comes to guns have. You think you can't? Arrogance is the gun owners worst enemy

 

[kbm6893]

This is a cop out. Gun type doesn't matter. Observe the rules 100% of the time and ND's won't happen.

Elevated risk comes from not paying attention to what you're doing.

I do NOT believe that everyone will have an ND.

And he was stating a gun with no safety or at least a DA trigger raise the odds. That's all. And they do

 

[g8rb8]

Thanks for reinforcing the importance of "THE 4 RULES." I do not think they can be reinforced enough.

I was invited to an estate sale because I knew the family and they had firearms and knew I would be interested. There were about 4 adults and one child in the basement with the firearms. I was advised by a well known trustworthy adult that all the guns were unloaded. I was immediately drawn to a beautiful little semi-auto. I picked it up, started ogling it, and within a couple of seconds realized I was being distracted by it and reminded myself of the 4 rules. Fortunately, by habit, I had not been pointing it near any person and I had kept my finger off the trigger. There was a round in the chamber and the safety was not engaged.

Many of us take for granted everyone knows the 4 rules but in case someone newer to shooting reads this post I want to restate them:
1. EVERY GUN SHOULD BE TREATED AS IF IT IS ALWAYS LOADED.
2. NEVER POINT A FIREARM AT ANYTHING YOU DO NOT WANT TO DESTROY OR KEEP IT ALWAYS POINTED DOWNRANGE.
3. KNOW WHAT IS BEYOND YOUR TARGET.
4. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER AT ALL TIMES UNTIL THE FIREARM IS ON TARGET AND YOU ARE READY TO SHOOT.

A fifth rule for me is to avoid being distracted by shiny objects.

John
Scoundrel and Ne'er-Do-Well in Training

 

[Kanewpadle]

Depends. If you're a casual gun owner who shoots a box a year it's unlikely simply because the gun is rarely out. Bill Jordan had one and killed a guy. Over a dozen on a gun forum, who are not virgins when it comes to guns have. You think you can't? Arrogance is the gun owners worst enemy

I disagree. And it always seems that those that have had one make excuses. I don't buy it.

There is simply no reason to put your finger on the trigger without first checking the gun. No reason.

There are times when we make mistakes both big and small. But when handling a gun, mistakes don't need to happen. It's unacceptable.

This is the mindset that people should have when handling guns. Not wait until you have one and then get serious about it.

 

[kbm6893]

I disagree. And it always seems that those that have had one make excuses. I don't buy it.

There is simply no reason to put your finger on the trigger without first checking the gun. No reason.

There are times when we make mistakes both big and small. But when handling a gun, mistakes don't need to happen. It's unacceptable.

This is the mindset that people should have when handling guns. Not wait until you have one and then get serious about it.

They taught he same thing to us when crossing the street. How many people get hit every year?

You prove me point. You say accidents "should" never happen. But you ignore the human factor. And you are not immune to it even though you are so sure you are

 

[vytoland]

firearms and texting DONT mix................

 

[BCDWYO]

If only perfect mistake-free people handled guns, this would be a pretty lonely forum! I had a ND into a tree in my back yard years ago. Scared the snot out of me and hopefully taught me a lesson.

 

[Lycan]

Nobody is perfect but these are the kinds of mistakes that can kill. Someone needs to run over to the M&P Pistol section and let the non-safety Shield crowd read this thread. They are mostly the same people that are against mag safeties also. A mag safety would have prevented the OP's accidental discharge.

 

[Jimmyjones]

Me too

Took a revolver out of the safe that I hadn't looked at in a year, I never put loaded firearms in the safe. ( Really?)

Held it up to the light and looked through the back of the cylinder, clear, then pushed the release, pushed the cylinder out about half way, yup, the charging holes were clear, at least the ones I could see.

Walked into the kitchen to do some dry firing, click, bang, bad words.

There must have been a round at the 4 o'clock position which I missed, with my expecting an empty revolver and my half donkey cylinder checks. I learned.

I now safety check the way I was originally trained, no shortcuts, no half donkey look. "Familiarity breeds contempt", I'd gotten too casual about firearms handling.

I always dry fire at the same area of my house, "just in case" the wall there is 18" of dry packed moss rock, not sure a .50 BMG could penetrate it, the wad cutter removed about an inch of plaster, I was lucky. The slug occupies a prominent spot for a regular reminder, and I didn't patch the hole so occasionally I get to explain my carelessness.

 

[tndrfttom]

Years ago, before the Model 59 came out, a friend decided that the Browning Hi-Power was going to be his carry gun. He subscribed to the notion that a magazine safety left you with a "club" if you lost your magazines so he asked me to take out the magazine safety - which I reluctantly did.

I went by his house a few days later and saw what appeared to be a piece of tape on his living room picture window. Naturally I stopped to check it out.... You guessed it, he had decided to do some dry firing, dropped the magazine but neglected to remove the round in the chamber. His 9mm FMJ bullet went thru the picture window, across a residential street, between two houses and came to rest in a nearby cemetery.

Obviously, if he had kept the magazine safety in his Hi-Power his negligent discharge would have been averted. No one let him forget about it and I never took out any more magazine safetys.

 

[jmace57]

I guess you might not call it a negligent discharge in my case, but certainly an unexpected one. I was at an indoor pistol range and was in the extreme leftmost lane. I was alone at the range.

I was looking at the floor, wall and ceiling starting about 3 feet out from the shooting area and saw gouges from bullet strikes from there all the way out. I was thinking "what kind of idiot is so oblivious that they could do that"?.

Not 30 seconds later, I was shooting a 1903 Colt for the first time (that particular 1903). I racked the slide on a live round with my finger outside the trigger guard and had a slam-fire. I put a nice gouge in the wall to my left about 5 feet in front of me. Absolutely scared the heck out of me - I couldn't figure out what had happened.

I was pointed downrange, so no harm, except to my nerves. Ever since then, I am even more careful about where the muzzle is pointing and I try to "expect the unexpected".

The other result - I ALWAYS get the farthest lane to the right, figuring that most people are right-handed and if THEY have an unexpected discharge they will likely be pointing away from me!

 

[Tom_R]

Thank you for fessing up to the ND.

Some things I do to observe firearm safety:
All of my ammunition is locked separately from my firearms.

The only time I ever load a firearm is when I am about to shoot it at the range, or if I am carrying, or about to carry it.

I never carry or have more than one loaded firearm at a time. If I am at the range, I only shoot one gun at a time. When I am done shooting that gun, it gets put back in the rug/case, and then I take out another one, then it is similarly done for the day.

When I get home after the range any left over ammunition is removed from my ammo case, and gets locked back up.

Then the guns come out one at a time and go through a re-check to ensure they are empty, and then they are cleaned. Again, one at a time.

Also, I never, ever, ever carry a gun in a sub par quality holster, or a holster that is not specifically made for that gun. A good belt and a good holster are like good tires and good breaks. You have to have them before anything else.

I also will refrain from dry firing in my house now, because of this story.

Something many other folks reading this will consider as well.

Again, thanks for posting what you did. It took guts.

 

[AZ_M&P]

March 20, 1994. Watching TV and dry firing my issued Glock 19. Guess I was still fascinated with it after going from a revolver. Had loaded mag out of gun behind me as I racked the slide and pulled the trigger.

That's the lesson I was taught, but learned the hard way - ammo ALWAYS stays in a "hot room" when anything at all is happening with a weapon.

 

[Mcwsky09]

No ND for me (yet, hopefully never) but just had my second instance of doing safety check and having a live round pop out.

First was while working on a feeding issue with a Taurus 738 and using my Bodyguard 380 for comparison. Thought I had cleared each before setting them down but checked for clear each time I picked them up and was surprised to have a round jump out of one I thought I had checked before setting it down. Maybe I could have used dummy rounds (if I had any) but not sure if anything other than a dummy round would be adequate for testing a feed issue while manually racking to watch the processes (since I don't have slow motion camera).
The second was when I arrived at the range yesterday and though I checked/cleared every gun as I loaded them into my bag somewhere along the way I put a full magazine into one of them, which I knew I had done and I thought the slide was closed when I did so, but when I safety checked on removing them from the bag a live round popped out of one and I don't recall dropping the slide after inserting the mag but I must have since there was one round less in the mag and it was my SD ammo which I normally don't even take to the range.
In both cases I had the firearm pointed in a safe direction and no finger on the trigger so no real issue just a reminder that you can never be too safe.

Actually I think I do know what happened in the recent case - I had the mag with the SD ammo inserted when I did the safety check at home - which chambered the round - then when I got to the range and dropped the mag and did my safety check on that end - the round I chambered at home popped out. Normally I drop the mag first then open the slide to check for clear and close it before inserting a full mag - in cases where I am transporting it that way.

 

[Usmc5811]

In The first week of November 1989, I was in the 8th grade and on my first big game hunt out west to Montana. After a long day of antelope hunting, my father a firearms instructor and now retired game warden and I were wiping down our rifles. I had just finished wiping down mine and had put it away while sitting on the side of the bunk bed at the main camp. My father had a Rem. M 700BDL in a .270 hand loaded for mule deer. He was closing the bolt ( I had watched him unload it and work the bolt before we ever came inside) and was holding down the trigger when there was a massive explosion. I felt a jolt to my right leg and when I turned and looked at the wall there were pieces of meat stuck to the wall. The next thing I know I am laying on the bunk bed and our other hunting partner, a Nam Vet had cut my pants off and was bandaging and trying to calm down a scared $h!@less 14 year old. Luckily I was point blank to the rifle and it just grazed my outside right leg about 2" above the knee. I was so close that it cauterized everything and hardly bled at all. Thank goodness since it was a little over an hour ride to the hospital. Just writing this still gives me goosebumps. Needless to say I killed a decent 3x4 later that week and had to have a skin graft a month later. It is still one hell of a scar, and before my daughters and I get out the guns to go shooting I remind them. They happen, but if you are extremely careful and treat every gun as if it were loaded you can greatly reduce the risk. Just my .02 cents

 

[AZ_M&P]

This is a cop out. Gun type doesn't matter. Observe the rules 100% of the time and ND's won't happen.

Elevated risk comes from not paying attention to what you're doing.

I do NOT believe that everyone will have an ND.

I would suggest that if it was as simple as "observing the rules 100% of the time" we'd never have auto accidents, chainsaw injuries, broken limbs from falls, man-caused forest fires, or a host of other human caused problems that plague us.

In reality, humans make mistakes. Always have, always will. We're imperfect. Try as we might to "observe the rules 100% of the time" accidents still happen.

I agree that not everyone will experience an ND - but I believe that the more/longer you handle a firearm, the more your odds of making a mistake increase. It's simply the law of averages that applies to those of us who aren't perfect.

 

[Oldbuck30]

Anyone who gets handed a gun with the giver saying it's empty and they believe is a moron who should never be allowed to touch a gun again. When I taught my sons gun safety one lesson was only you can say a gun is empty to you, by checking it twice, believe no one including the old man.

 

[nocents]

on most of the ND stories I have noticed some commonality.....dry firing at home.....getting distracted....I have done and experienced both.....I will not do the former any more....I will really work on the latter......so far...so good....thanks to the OP for a sobering reminder

 

[Duster340]

AZ_M&P

Thanks for sharing; it takes guts to share something like that.

Haven't done one yet, so stories like this keep me concious about it.

X2 Thanks for posting your story. Takes balls to go public with it. Much appreciated, and like Waywatcher these stories help raise the awareness. Glad you and your's were not harmed.

Be well

 

[Old TexMex]

I know the difference between accidental and negligent. One is a mechanical failure on the part of the equipment, the other is a failure by the operator.
Results of either can be non lethal if the operator controls the direction of the muzzle.

Don't point that thing at me unless you intend to use it.

 

[Jhp147]

Guess there is a pattern here. I know a very experienced instructor who was gathering up student's guns he needed to clean and decided to clean his. Cell phone rings, conversation follows, back to cleaning the guns the students just cleared and dropped off BOOM when he squeezed the trigger of his not checked G17. The injury has some permanent nerve damage I think.
Now, if the phone rings while I'm handling guns I treat it like I'm driving, voicemail is fine thank you.

 

[Rastoff]

yes anyone who handles firearms long enough will have an accidental discharge.

I completely disagree.

While negligent discharges aren't uncommon, I disagree with the notion that almost everyone who handles guns long enough is going to experience one.

This is more realistic.

3. KNOW WHAT IS BEYOND YOUR TARGET.

Thanks for posting the 4 rules. We can't have them given to us enough. However, I would like to modify rule three if I may. What you posted is the time honored way. The new way is: 3. Be aware of your target and what's in line with it.
By wording it this way, it includes everything from the muzzle to the horizon. You also want to be sure no one or nothing is in between you and the target.



OK, there's been some discussion about dry practice. I agree that dry practice is a great way to improve your shooting. I do it a lot. In fact, I probably do it about 50:1; 50 dry presses to every one live. It can be done safely if some simple rules are followed. Here they are:

• Unload your gun. This may sound obvious, but if it were, there would never be a negligent discharge (ND) at home.
• -
• Designate a dry practice area. If possible, pick a place that has a back stop with some ability to stop a bullet. A brick or cinder block wall is good or a wall facing a dirt hill is good too. It doesn't matter where this area is, but NEVER take ammo into this area. ALWAYS unload the gun and magazines before entering this area. Treat this area as sacred. If you have your carry gun strapped to you, don't go in this area.
• -
• Put up a target. It doesn't matter what it is, just be sure to put it up. A 3" sticky note works great. DO NOT use a permanent fixture. I can't emphasize this enough. I actually have a friend who was practicing his trigger control by pointing at guys on the TV. Yep, you guessed it, he got a brand new plasma TV, just a little sooner than he wanted. More on this later.
• -
• Say out loud, "I'm starting dry practice." Sound dumb? It's not. This alerts anyone that might hear you to what you're doing. It is also a stronger clue to yourself of what you're doing. It helps trigger that inner sense of heightened safety. Do a chamber check and magazine check at the beginning. (If you don't know what that is, just ask. I have all day.)
• -
• Set a time limit. The average attention span to achieve quality learning is about 20 minutes. You can practice for hours if you like, just break it up into sessions not longer than 20 minutes.
• -
• Do your practice. Trigger control, follow through, malfunction drills, whatever you feel like doing. This practice time is inviolate. Do not answer your phone, talk to your kids or pet the dog; just do dry practice. If you can't practice without all those distractions, don't practice. If you just have to answer the phone, leave the dry practice area while on the phone and start over at the beginning when you come back to the dry practice area.
• -
• When you're done with your practice session, say out loud, "I'm done with dry practice", take down your target and leave the dry practice area. Again, this emphasizes the actions you're taking and ingrains a better level of safety.
• -
• Under no circumstances say, "One more time." This will eventually lead to disaster. I know of one fellow who was doing dry practice and using a picture on his wall for a target (here's another reason that's bad). He finished and loaded up his carry gun to head off to work. As he was headed out the door, he saw that picture and thought, "Just one more time." This time he had a loaded gun and put a hole in the picture and the wall. Thankfully he had a solid wall behind it and the round didn't continue to his neighbor's house.

If this procedure is followed, no one will ever get hurt. Further, even if you have a negligent discharge, the gun will be pointed in a safe direction.

 

[wildenout]

Glad to hear nobody but the couch got hurt! Reading this story has reminded me to be more cautious myself so thank you..

 

[kbm6893]

That's the lesson I was taught, but learned the hard way - ammo ALWAYS stays in a "hot room" when anything at all is happening with a weapon.

Oh yeah. My rule from that day on as well. The truth of the matter is I am GRATEFUL that I had that ND. I was entirely to confident and confidence breeds complacency. We are all human and are quite capable of making mistakes. Professional shooters have had ND's and yet we STILL have the "my safety is between my ears" crowd who feel they will NEVER have one. Pretty arrogant if you ask me. Most of the stories we heard here resulted in no injury, but that was just luck. I could have shot someone in that other room.

For me, the guns are unloaded and in separate safes. When I take them out, they get loaded. Only exception is there is a speedloader next to a revolver in case my wife needs to get to a gun fast, and my home defense gun is in a gunvault next to my bed. S&W 6906 with safety on and loaded magazine next to it. If I need a gun fast I can't be going to two separate safes. I also LOVE mag disconnects

 

[SW01SS]

When Im dry firing I remove the mag from the gun and put it away. Double check that there is nothing in the chamber, triple check, and then proceed to practice. No ammo or loaded mags even get touched during the dry fire practice time. If you completely separate your ammunition from yourself and from the gun before going about cleaning and dry firing then there is no way you could possibly have an ND.

 

[gdnagle]

I always triple check my firearm before dry firing. Paranoid maybe. Was out shooting with a buddy and swapped firearms. his was a revolver so I checked all the cartridge's in the cylinder. All had good deep primer strikes. As I didn't want to dryfire the old revolver without a snap cap I left the centerfire rounds in with deep primer strikes. Pulled the trigger to feel the trigger pull several time and bang. One had a good strike and didn't go off the first time. Outside aiming downrange so no damage but proved to me don't trust seeing a good primer strike that the round had fired.

Now with me if I'm doing anything with a firearm or anything, the phone rings, door knock, wife comes in, I don't know how to text so we can leave that one off. I finish up what I was doing put things away then see what was wanted. Nothing is more important for me then to finish what I was doing, unless the house was on fire or some zombie's were at the door.I'm too old to multi task. Remember what the old saying about getting old is. The second thing to go is you memory or is that the first.

Glad no one was injured but your wall, couch, and pride. S happens just be careful. I guess a good thing that will come out of this for your significant other is a new sofa. Hey you could put the old one on the porch or in the yard and have a comfortable place to sit outside practicing dry firing.