New 329 Nightguard - NEW RANGE REPORT ADDED -- GO TO 01/11/09 POST

[winchester1]

mrheythere - nice report on your 329, I bought a 396NG a short while back, I considered the 329, but I have several 44 mags and liked the size of the 5 shot L frame. I'm still in the load development stages with the gun but have had no problems whatsoever with it (other than some of the finish coming off the front of the cylinder (holster?). Recoil is very snappy but tolerable.
Jeff

 

[mrheythere]

CCW update

I carried the 329 in the Kramer holster all day today including a couple of hours while fishing a local river. The 329 is wonderfully light for carry. The Kramer kept it tight to the body and out of the way for fishing. BTW, I landed a nice rainbow and cutthroat.

 

[Ultima-Ratio]

Originally posted by ArchAngelCD:
mrheythere,
Thank you for the reports..
As for the recoil, I think if you replace the stock Pachmayr Custom Compac grips with Pachmayr Decelerator Grips you will tame the recoil quite a bit. Check them out on the Pachmayr Site.

Exactly what he said!

 

[Cayoot]

mrheythere
Thanks for the reports and the pics. I fondled one of these at the gun shop a couple weeks ago...WOW! I want it bad...but I'm trying to think of a niche for it...might just have to have it to have a .44 snubbie to go with my 8 inch Dan Wesson.

I almost want the L frame .44 spl, but I'm not willing to give up the capacity of my 686+ for carry.

I noticed someone mentioned that they were noticing that the finish was already showing some wear on the cylinder.

That is disappointing...I was hoping that the finish was durable...it sure is attractive.

What is your opinion on the durability of the finish?

 

[mrheythere]

This is another update. I swapped the compact grips for some Hogues. Generally I prefer Pachmayr over Hogues, but not in this case. I can now reach the trigger with the crease in my index finger. I was barely able to reach it with the factory Pachmayr grips.

My only concern now is that I have taken a pistol with hammer hitting recoil and removed the cushion between my hand and the gun...OUCH. I probably should have put on the Decelerators others recommended but I wanted to try to keep the gun compact.

I will provide a range report in a few weeks.

Photos below. Notice how much more thin the Hogue is.

 

[istricky]

If you plan on carrying this pocket rocket...you need to bob the hammer and put a set of Eagle agent wood grips on that puppie! Then it would look just like mine. Been carrying it in my coat upper breast pocket all fall and I love it. Nice back up to my main hip side 1911 Les Baer 45acp in a Sparks VM2. Be careful out there!

 

[rburg]

Another convert!

Good thread, too. A lot of important points covered here. Yes, the 329s are very good guns, if for limited purposes. I would advise anyone not to make it their only 44 mag. It then becomes a great first line gun, with the heavy one being carried and used a lot less.

The 329 is probably the best 44 special they've ever produced, and thats saying a lot from a company which pretty much made the caliber. With mild or average Specials, its a pleasure to shoot. There is a gun that gives it a run for the money. The early, pre-lock 396. Sure, you only get 5 shots, but its significantly thinner and easier to handle.

Back to the idea of taking apart a new gun. Yes, almost all of us do that anyhow. Those that don't really have no room to complain about rough actions, or stiff springs. You'd just be amazed at the crap I've found in revolver actions over the years. The most common is balls of gum, like dried out oil or grease. But I've also found dried out bugs (how they got there other than crawling into tiny holes, I haven't a clue.)

The worst things have been inside some of the best guns. My beloved 337 was full of black grit and greenish oil. I have no idea where that came from other than the manufacturing process. The grit was clearly abrasive of some kind. It flushed out fast and easy, as did the excess oil.

I view the internal lock much like the springs. The factory did a terrible job of selecting those components. Wolf did a much better job of designing springs that will do the job pleasantly. Nothing adds to the general shootability as much as replacing 2 of those. And the lock nub just should be viewed as something with a burr on it that needs to be removed. I personally prefer a dremel too, but if a file works for others, thats OK, too.

I don't have the short barrel gun. Mine is the 4" earlier model. My only complaint is the front sight is the stupid plastic light pipe, which seems to hang up in some holsters. The NG seems to solve that.

Even though I hate CTC with a passion due to their earlier sins, my 329 has a set on it. It was my "profit" from a trade for another N frame gun. They work acceptably as handles on the gun. At close ranges and with 44 shot loads, you can be pretty sure that where the dot sits, the shot pattern will be close. If you put it on the 'coons ass, he will shift into overdrive when you let go with the shot.

 

[animalmother]

Thanks for sharing. I am planning on getting the 315 NG.

 

[mrheythere]

Originally posted by istricky:
If you plan on carrying this pocket rocket...you need to bob the hammer and put a set of Eagle agent wood grips on that puppie! Then it would look just like mine. Been carrying it in my coat upper breast pocket all fall and I love it. Nice back up to my main hip side 1911 Les Baer 45acp in a Sparks VM2. Be careful out there!

Do you have a picture of yours with the Eagle Agent grips you could post? Thanks

 

[AreB]

rburg-I'm curious. What are the "earlier sins" regarding CTC lasergrips? Just bought my first pair-for a 1911-and like them so far.

 

[mrheythere]

Originally posted by AreB:
rburg-I'm curious. What are the "earlier sins" regarding CTC lasergrips? Just bought my first pair-for a 1911-and like them so far.

Good question. I am curious too.

 

[rburg]

CTC cheated me, plain and simple. I hold a grudge for a long time (about forever.) Get me once, shame on you (and shame on CTC), get me twice, shame on me (0bviously for making it possible.)

I purchased a set of J round grips from one of their dealers in Salt Lake. They were expensive, and a novelty. It looked like a good idea. So I purchased them and we drove home. Yes, 1600 miles home. When I tried to install them, they went on OK, but it was impossible to regulate the dot to the point of impact. There didn't seem to be enough adjustment. Closer inspection revealed that they were just sloppy with the epoxy potting compound they'd used and it had formed a bulge. As you tightened the screw down on the grips, it forced the upper part of the grip away from the frame and out of alignment.

So I did what anybody who'd paid $200+ for a poorly manufactured and inspected item would do. I called them. What a lousy and hard headed customer dis-service department. The only option I had was to hand carry or mail them back to the retailer where I got them. Hmmmm. That'd be a 3200 mile round trip and take a week. The obvious thing they were telling me was to eat my loss. OK, and also to hate them forever after. I tried calling at different times, and when I was passed upward, I got the same communist party line. The only option was to let my dealer handle it.

So I got really mad and decided that I wasn't going to be quiet and lick my wounds in private. I vowed to trash them publicly at every opportunity in the future. I've been doing that here for the entire time I've been on this board, and on rec.guns and tx.guns before that.

There is just no excuse for treating customers that poorly. They've since changed their ways, or so I'm told. Smithnut even came on one thread and commented that he personally knew the president of the company and they'd always treated him well. OK, if you know the Prez and they don't treat you well, they're gone. The real point is how do they treat the average Joe (the plumber?) when he has a problem.

In all fairness, I think my bitching did get their attention a few years ago. Their new sales guy posted and made an apology to me. That was nice.

The N round set I put on my 329 (back to the thread) was purchased used at my gunshop. It was cheap and since I know the proprietor personally, I got his promise that they were returnable. Guess he was afraid I'd shoot him if he didn't take them back. That or never do business with him again. I was spending too much with them for them to take a risk.

The N grips are fine. Yes I carefully inspected the potting area where they glued the device in. It was well done.

I fixed the original, faulty grips with my dremel tool. I took off as much as I had the nerve to grind. I really didn't want to grind into the device itself. They work OK.

 

[Frankie2blue]

There was a post on here a while back where someone drilled out the lock hole itself and fit it with a flush pin to match the others on the gun. Really turned out great. If they ever dropped the locks on some of these new ones, I would be in trouble as there are quite a few I would have to have.

 

[mrheythere]

Originally posted by Frankie2blue:
There was a post on here a while back where someone drilled out the lock hole itself and fit it with a flush pin to match the others on the gun. Really turned out great. If they ever dropped the locks on some of these new ones, I would be in trouble as there are quite a few I would have to have.

It would be nice is SW went lockless. I no longer am bothered by the lock on certain models since I deactivate it and have become used to its look. It was much easier for me to get used to a lock on combat looking Smiths such as the Night Guard. I would not like it on a BBQ gun such as my Nickel model 19 with stag grips.

 

[mrheythere]

RANGE REPORT -- SAFETY ALERT!

I was able to go to the range today to test one bear defense load and two personal defense loads with the new Hogue grips mentioned in the posts above.

I was very concerned that the Hogues would worsen recoil since there was no rubber between the grip frame and the hand. The opposite was true. The Hogues reduced perceived recoil for the size and shape of my hand. While I have been traditionally a big Pachmayr fan, I am completely sold on Hoque grips for this gun. The Hogue grips substantially reduce the reach to the trigger and make shooting more comfortable. However, make no mistake, this gun is NOT "comfortable" to shoot.

The three 44 MAG loads I tested were:


1. Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 200gr 1075FPS/ 513 foot pounds
2. Corbon DPX 225 gr 1350FPS/ 911 foot pounds
3. Corbon 305 gr flat point penetrators 1300FPS/1145 foot pounds

As part of my test was for crimp jump under recoil in this light frame gun. My test consisted of loading 6 rounds, shooting 4, reloading 4, shooting the 4 new rounds. Thus the rounds in chamber holes 5 and 6 have been in the gun for 8 shots.

I am pleased to report that the Corbon 305 gr FPPN had no issues crimp jump after being in the cylinder for 13 shots.

NOT SO WITH THE CORBON DPX OR THE GOLD DOTS.

After 8 rounds shot the Gold Dots were showing a 1/16 inch crimp movement, but still well behind and short of the cylinder face. After a dozen shots there was a little more movement but still no issue with locking up the gun. The Speer Gold Dot was very controllable with Hogue grips (yet stout). It will be fine as a no-nonsense defense round. Based on the limited crimp jump I am not afraid to use it.

I want to preface the next section of the report by stating that I think Corbon products are great and the folks on TeamCorbon are responsive, helpful, and really concerned about producing a great product. I use Corbon DPX in a number of defensive applications. But as of today not in my 44 mag.

The DPX was an utter disappointment. Ironically, I was going to get 44 Special to try but ended up ordering the 44 Mag DPX. No problem, i thought, maybe 911 foot pounds will not be that bad. Wrong. It was awful. One day maybe I will try the 44 special.

The DPX had a terrible problem with crimp jumping.

It repeatedly and predictably jumped its crimp after the first shot and could completely disable the gun by the 8th shot. See picture below.

This is after 8 shots. I locked up my gun.

Anyway, in sum: Hogues good. Corbon bear rounds good. Speer Gold Dots will be fine, most likely. DPX no way for this gun and caliber.

By the way, I shot a total of 40 rounds. OUCH OUCH OUCH. Only a small portion of the skin on the web of my hand was rubbed raw.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have only one problem with your test. You are reporting the gun is disabled a after the rounds are exposed to 8 shots yet under normal circumstances they last round should only be subjected to 5 shots. If after 5 shots the sixth is only slightly pulled them the ammo is safe.

 

[mrheythere]

Originally posted by ArchAngelCD:
I have only one problem with your test. You are reporting the gun is disabled a after the rounds are exposed to 8 shots yet under normal circumstances they last round should only be subjected to 5 shots. If after 5 shots the sixth is only slightly pulled them the ammo is safe.

I agree with your comments as to the Speer, which will be fine because the jump was minor or Corbon FPPN since there was no movement.

I did some extra shots to determine if there was a margin of error. I do not want rounds in a defense gun that fire after five shots but jam on six. That is not good for me. I wanted to make sure it was not a close call.


I believe the DPX may fail under your methodology too. I did not report interim results. I checked during each round after only 1 to 2 shots. When I observed the DPX jumping crimp so badly, I checked after each shot. There was significant movement of the DPX round after each shot fired. It simply took eight to disable the gun.

My statement that DPX is "no way" should be modified to say "use with caution and after testing." I do not personally want to do more testing because DPX is over $40 for 20 rounds and my right hand is swollen.

 

[M29since14]

I did some extra shots to determine if there was a margin of error. I do not want rounds in a defense gun that fire after five shots but jam on six. That is not good for me. I wanted to make sure it was not a close call.

This is good thinking. Just because the gun can run any given cylinder-full through without a hiccup, it's no indication that the ammo is OK. That is a no-safety-margin scenario. But, then, you get into the problem Heythere mentions with ammo cost - and potential damage to your hand!

From what I have seen with my 340 and 329, there is a real problem with the ammunition for these guns and it is hard to have good confidence in them because of that. I wonder if some day we will see ammunition assembled with some type of adhesive, made especially for the ultra-lightweight guns?

I have a 329PD. It is a monstrosity in several ways, mostly the recoil department - yes, even with 500 stocks. The stickiness of the material grabs the skin and lets the gun really snap your hand around in a painful way. But I did fix the silly sights and now at least that is not a problem. I looked at a couple 329 Nightguards this weekend at the gun show. They have more realistic sights, but, still, those things are not for me!

 

[myakkaman]

I like the looks of the night guard, I think it would make a great camping gun. I don't know wether to get the .45 acp/auto rim or the .44 mag and shoot specials out of it. I would like to have the hammer bobbed so that I could draw it fast from a heavy coat. Hmmmm shades of Mr. Holmes walking the lonely moors with large caliber Webley Pug revolver in his pocket......
Yup lock or no lock, I want one

 

[mrheythere]

Originally posted by myakkaman:
I like the looks of the night guard, I think it would make a great camping gun. I don't know wether to get the .45 acp/auto rim or the .44 mag and shoot specials out of it. I would like to have the hammer bobbed so that I could draw it fast from a heavy coat. Hmmmm shades of Mr. Holmes walking the lonely moors with large caliber Webley Pug revolver in his pocket......
Yup lock or no lock, I want one

I think you will be happy with it. It is so light it makes a great carry gun. As you note, if you get the 44mag you can shoot specials, which gives you a lot of loads to choose from. My next range report will likely be with specials.