New .38sp ammo too small?

[rpg0123]

The size of a bullet is only one factor. 38 spl nowadays provides a pretty good mix of bullet size and velocity to offer decent penetration. Old problems with the 38 spl had a lot to do with bullet design before modern improvements. Some large bullets are too large to kick up much velocity to penetrate well too. I've seen head imaging with large bullets (45 in this case) that barely penetrated the skull and only embedded maybe an inch or two below the skull. What makes a rifle so effective? Velocity. I wouldn't doubt 38+p in a 130 gr bullet or so with hollow point at reasonable distances.

 

[bubbajoe45]

i have no doubt what so ever that if i shot any human being on this planet with a .44 mag round...in the chest...that part of their spine would exit with the round.

. . . if you hit the spine - that's what the other posters are talking about. You could easily shoot someone in the chest 4 times (with a .44 mag) and NOT hit the spine.

I know of two people shot with .44 mags that lived to tell about it. One was in Georgia: a gun store owner's girlfriend got in a disagreement with him about telling his wife or something and she shot him with a .44 (not sure exactly where). He returned fire as well - needless to say, he ended up divorced, with no girlfriend after he got out of the hospital (lost his business also). The other was in Nevada: a would-be Quick-Draw McGraw was practicing with his new Ruger Vaquero in .44 Mag - loaded. I saw pictures of his leg; laid open from stem to stern (it was ugly).

This thread reminds me of something Roy Huntington said in a story some years back about an Outdoorsman he had converted to .45 Colt by Hamilton Bowen with Roy fishpaw grips. When ribbed about his old fashioned revolver by his 'glockenschpiel' cop buddies he replied that they could stand off and he would shoot at them until they got tired of it. Nobody wants to get shot with anything, not even a .25 (at least I don't), but to put somebody down you've got to hit 'em where it counts.

 

[RonS]

The problem is that people want to fixate on a single factor in a complex question.

What is the nature of the target? Average guy? Stoned on something unpronouncable? Enraged and bent on destruction?

Where is the hit? Through a muscle? Spine, lung, heart? Hit bone or not?

What is the target wearing? Leather jacket over a sweater and shirt or a wifebeater and a gang tattoo?

What bullet? LRN, generic HP, high tech HP? Lead, all copper, JHP?

I am kind of a history buff and have dozens of books written by WWII vets and Vietnam Vets about their experiences. I am struck by the tales of soldiers, sailors and airmen who were wounded by aircraft cannon, crewserved weapons and fragments from gravity bombs and continued to function.

There was a Japanese pilot who was wounded in the face by a .30-06, his eye was put out and he flew back to base and landed his plane with part of a .30-06 bullet in his eyeball. On a more extreme example there was a B17 crewman who carried a burning incendary bomb out of the bombbay and threw it out of the plane while it burned both of his hands off. Many Vietnam chopper pilots were wounded by 12.7mm HMH fire and continued to fly long enough to complete the mission or at least land, depending on where they were hit.

People are unpredictable, there are no simple answers and all you can do is play the odds. I carried a 4" S&W with LRN ammo for 4 years, I would carry one again, but you can bet it would be with the best hollowpoints I could find. (I carry a .45 ACP 1911 now, just for the record.)

 

[exfebee]

A 38 will do it. I once went to a Bank Robbery where the bad guy (the dude) was 260 pounds and a good 6 feet tall. He was wearing a T-Shirt & Blue Jeans. Came into the Bank & fired a shot straight at the bank teller. He apparently didn't know the glass in front of her was bullet proof. 45 caliber slug glanced up into the ceiling. The Bank's Security Guard was an older retired police officer about 70 years of age. The Guard was armed with plain 38+P ammo. No hollow point. From a distance of 15 feet he cranked off 4 shots for a "perfect K5 kill area". The group was about 3 inches across. The "dude" was dead by the time he hit the floor. What a great retired police officer. A 38 will do the job.

 

[Hook686]

Actually, I once knew a man who hit a thug in the chest four times with a .44 Magnum, and the man ran for blocks, no vital organ being hit. That officer switched to a Model 19 with full .357 loads, and resovled to aim better.

If the BG runs away, is that not good enough results from any SD scenario ?

I'd rather have him be hit by a .44 magnum and run away, than hit by a .38 and keep coming.

 

[reerc]

Like Erich says shot placement is king, God save the queen and angels win pin shoots (or something like that - but I agree with the shot placement part).

My favorite post in this thread.

 

[79ipa]

medxam

hey medxam what caliber do you carry for self defense?

 

[Babalooie]

110 grain Hydra-Shoks.