New 625 with to light trigger weight

[Silverbullit]

Hi mates,

I purchased a brand new 625 and I cannot compete with it as it has a to light Singel Action trigger pull,
here in Sweden it must carry 1,36kg (3 pounds) without breaking or your disqualified from the competition.
It holds just above 1,1kg and further I need to replace the springs with lighter hammer blade spring and rebound spring. (Preferable an as light rebound spring as I can get hold of, a 9 would be perfect.)

I done a lot of trigger jobs and have some home hobby experience, but starting working on a revolver that does not hold the trigger weight before I even start is a new experience for me.
Is there any way, any trick or such that you could share with me on how to increase the SA trigger weight to allow a lighter rebound spring with me I sure would appreciate your help.

Is there a way to fix this without exchangin any/all the internal parts?

/Silverbullit

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

Are the springs original?

If so, make sure the strain screw is tightened up.

If so, I'd lightly stone the trigger, per instructions in the FAQ, under fixing push off.

 

[tbury]

That sounds too light for a stock trigger. Single action should be easily above 3 pounds. I agree with 500 Mag Nut check the main spring screw. The one at the bottom of the front edge of the grip frame.

 

[38-44HD45]

Maybe I'm not understanding, but I do not read the OP to say that he is experiencing pushoff, just a SA pull that is too light to make weight for his chosen competition. Tightening the strain screw is a good idea, but might not affect SA pull very much. The rebound slide spring may be too light, so it may need to be replaced with a heavier one, even though the OP says he wants a 9-pounder. FWIW, going below 13 pounds for the rebound slide spring, 11 at the bottom, is going to significantly slow trigger return. If rapid DA fire is needed, 9 pounds is too light.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

2.5 pounds, which may be what he has, is OK for bullseye around here, is safe, and used to be found frequently on new revolvers. I'd just do what 500 Magnum Nut says, but that's easy for me to say, because I prefer factory stock springs regardless.

 

[Wayne K]

OK - just for a data point, I recently bought a 625 JM. Trigger pull out of the box was over 14lbs...could not measure with a lyman trigger scale. I dry fired literally 1,000+ times (blister), Shot 400 rounds, opened it up, stoned the rebound block and polished the hammer boss on the site plate and both sides of hammer, replaced the main spring and rebound spring with the "Jerry Mikulik Spring Kit" (Brownells 100-000-223) and filed the main spring strain screw a few thousands. I'd recommend you order a replacement rebound screw from Brownells as insurance before you do this! 940-000-465 $3.29 US.
Now my trigger pull is 9.5 and the SA trigger release is 2.48 (2 lb 4.8 oz). Push-off is fine, and it fires all primers, but I'll work it down to about 7.5 and stick with Federals. Also the MIM hammer had a radius grove on both sides from rubbing on the frame. Actually, the fit was a tad poor over all for a so called S&W Champion series, large gap between backstrap and right stock etc. Gap in crane to frame fit. Hope yours was a better quality!

 

[Silverbullit]

Hi mates, first of all - thank you for all the great answers and suggestions. It means a lot to me that youre here taking time and offering your kind advice and help!!!
Absolutely great forum!

Strain screw is bottomed out, original springs. (Really heavy...)
I also prefer to locktite the strain screw instead of cutting it down, it is an easier way to adapt to different primers point of ignition pressure.

The parts are original, as in the rebound spring and mainspring.
When I took a peek at the trigger/hammer I noticed that less than half the hook-up surface on the hammer is engaged in the SA notch...
I should add that both hammer and trigger looks like they came out of the box of discarded crap. I have seen a lot of internals and these two are by far the most uneven parts looking like someone clubbered them with a really sharp axe. I think that something must have gone wrong in manufacturing, pherhaps a broken tool, because this does not look normal.

It is a brand new revolver, do you mates think theres any chance S&W will replace them if I send them in? (I mean on S&W:s lifetime warranty, it has not even been fired yet...)

If you think it is unlikely they replace below standard parts I will give the push-off trick a try.

I tried a 13lbs rebound spring and a wolf reduced mainspring,
and the SA went down something silly...
It is clearly the rebound spring that decides when the SA breaks.
The original spring seems more suitable for my mercedes suspension *lol*


Model520Fan,
As is, anything below 3 pounds disqualifies me from entering most competitions =/

Wayne_K
Actually it looks like I been in luck with this one, seems really nice all around (besides the hammer/trigger, but those can easily be replaced thank good) Hammer and Trigger travels straight, finish is good, wheel/drum is tight.
Second chamber does time a bit late, I dont know if it is possible to just exchange the star to fix this, arent the new parts supposed to be drop-in?
Pherhaps you wish to check it out, heres a pic mates

38-44HD45:
I have 9-11 rebound springs in my other 3 revolvers. I'm no Jerry Miculek, but I can do 12 rounds in my 357:s in just under 5secs (not any faster if I am supposed to hit anything.) using safariland compIII speedloaders. This has a lot to do with my wish for a 625, wanting to see if I can get any faster using moonclips, he he

 

[Silverbullit]

Are the springs original?

If so, make sure the strain screw is tightened up.

If so, I'd lightly stone the trigger, per instructions in the FAQ, under fixing push off.

Thank you for the push-off tip 500 Magnum Nut!!!

I will ask S&W if they are generous enough to replace my hammer/trigger under the brand new revolver warrantee,
if not I will get right on your push-off tip 500MagnumNut!

It is a great tip! Thanks again

/Silverbullit

 

[ken158]

Too light SA is fixed same as push off

 

[scooter123]

I have to question whether even 500 Magnum Nut's advise will provide a solution in your case. I found than on my 617 and my 610, installing a 12 lbs rebound spring took the SA trigger to a touch under 2 lbs. and that's with the factory mainspring and strain screw setting.

What you are contemplating is installing an even lighter rebound spring in combination with a lighter than factory mainspring. With so little spring tension against the sear, you are probably going to have to shape both the sear surfaces on the hammer and trigger so that it creates a reverse angle engagement, or "hook" effect. I suspect that the result may be a rather gritty trigger in single action and the sear surfaces will tend to wear more rapidly than normal. Personally, if you are trying to get the DA trigger in the region of 5 to 6 lbs. it may not be possible with the S&W lockwork while maintaining reliable ignition with a SA trigger as heavy as you need it for your competitions.

BTW, I found the SA break a bit too light for my tastes with the 12 lbs. rebound springs and have replaced them with 14 lbs. springs. SA break is just a nudge over 3 lbs. and the DA pull is about 8.5 lbs using the factory mainspring with the strain screw all the way in on both guns. I also played around with backing off on the strain screw on the 610 and it did lighten the DA pull, however it also reduced the SA pull at the same time.

 

[shovelwrench]

I was always under the impression that the 3lb rule was for the "single action" of autos, since most revolvers are fired double action in competition....??????

 

[Silverbullit]

I was always under the impression that the 3lb rule was for the "single action" of autos, since most revolvers are fired double action in competition....??????

In Sweden the majority of competition types have a standard minimum weight of 1,000kg for small caliber (.22lr) and large calibers 1,360kg/3pounds. (Some international rules are even up to 1,589kg)

For illustrating the matter it takes 1,36kg for competitions like,
PPC (All matches including SR6", SR4" and SR3" except 1500 open matches which are 1,135kg)
25 meter range (Standing one handed ordinary 25m range shooting)
25 meter Magnum range,
Speed Target,
Military Folding Target,
IPSC (Some divisions demand 1,36kg)
Field
Magnum Field,
Rangefield
And so forth... (Exceptions are as I mentioned .22lr in the competitions the calibre is availible)

I hope I did not simplify to much, also I don't know if my translations are correct, but I hope you get it from my lame swenglish mates




I deeply appreciate your feedback mates, thank you!!!

/Silverbullit

(PS. about PPC sweden has an exception for SR2,5" due to legal reasons making it SR3" wich kinda sux for all short ejector 2,5" snubby owners.)

 

[tbury]

I would get a hold of S&W Customer Service. They should make it right on a non-modified new gun, especially with the trigger/hammer condition you found. For your sake I hope they have European repair facilities.

 

[tomcatt51]

If you have a bobbed hammer do they try to check the SA pull?

 

[Nightowl]

If the hammer and trigger are not mating squarely for single action, then, in my opinion, the parts are defective and the factory should fix it. It is much easier to fix a hard action by lightning the springs, it does not work much to try to increase the single action weight by lightening the springs. When the parts do not mate, and the lighter springs are installed, pushoff can be just around the corner.

 

[S&W WHEELNUT]

S&W 625 GRIP

How makes that GRIP.......... email me

[email protected]

 

[38-44HD45]

Glenn, those look like Nill grips. Nill Griffe - Revolver Grips

 

[Silverbullit]

tbury
I would get a hold of S&W Customer Service. They should make it right on a non-modified new gun, especially with the trigger/hammer condition you found. For your sake I hope they have European repair facilities.

Unfortunately I beleive everybody considers the
Swedish S&W Customer Service a joke.
The new Swedish retailer does not know the hammer from the
trigger. And most people I know are kinda in disbelief when
they find all S&W firearms stored in a huge pile in their safe.
(Not that I am picky, but I dont want a brand new scratched
pistol/revoler, and neither does anyone else that I know of...)
Anyway, it gives a hint on what level we are talking about here.

tomcatt51
If you have a bobbed hammer do they try to check the SA pull?

If you refer to PPC it's only allowed in the R1500 open match.
Other than that they will check or directly disqualify you from
the match.

Nightowl
If the hammer and trigger are not mating squarely for single action, then, in my opinion, the parts are defective and the factory should fix it. It is much easier to fix a hard action by lightning the springs, it does not work much to try to increase the single action weight by lightening the springs. When the parts do not mate, and the lighter springs are installed, pushoff can be just around the corner.

I sure hope so, I took the liberty of writing S&W U.S.A. directly.
Though I get refered around and now I should phone them.
I think I'll have to purchase brand new parts in the end,
at least that is the feeling I get, no warrantees or support for
Swedish customers.

lone star hydro Who makes that GRIP.......... email me

It didnt say when I got the revolver, but I happen to know these are
Nill grips. Actually you cannot tell by the look of them, but they feel
something undescribably good to hold. Like a billion times better
than Ahrends and the likes. (sry 4 that Ahrends, but it's the truth)
I also have Nill grips bianchi cup style for my PPC revolver, they are a
must for closing in on those last points shooting full score.
(One thing about the 625 grips in question, despite pneumonia
and cronic bronchitis I caughed my arse down range,
the smooth open back grips was a bit slippery and twisted in my
hand from the recoil. But it could be me, I'm totally week'n
exhausted, also I do no sissy .45acp+P loads...
Probably my fault.)
So I think I still dare recommend them highly =)
Check out the kindly supplied link to Nill griffes homepage in the above previous posters answer...

Hope the above answers is helpful mates,

/Silverbullit