New 686-6 Plus PC with 38 SPL 158gr Lead RN loads

[RDub]

Hello
Purchased a new Performance Center 5" 686-6 Plus and have been putting it through some paces. One of the areas of curiosity is how it will shoot 158gr Lead RN 38 Specials.

First I picked up some new factory ammo, the new Remington Wheelgun, and Winchester, 158gr Lead RN loads. Along with some older factory loads that were still around here, the Federal American Eagle and Remington-UMC 158gr loads. I posted a complete pull-down of these loads over here;

38 Special Fed American Eagle 158gr Lead RN - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com

38 Special Winchester 158gr Lead RN - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com

38 Special Remington 158gr Lead RN Wheelgun - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com

38 Special Remington-UMC 158gr Lead RN - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com

Here is a pic showing all four together comparing a 4" barrel against the 5" barrel;




I was especially curious why Winchester would load bullets that were so grossly under sized... In fact all of them didn't load bullets that were a full .358" in diameter.
It would seem that the factories are doing all they can to keep pressures as low as possible while still providing a product that meets velocity standards. Just a guess..

Loaded some test rounds using the Magtech 158gr Lead RN in nickel R-P brass. The Magtech bullet diameter is .3575" to .3581". Two new powders were included, IMR Target, and Winchester's 244, along with a few popular favorites. I wanted to do more of a side-by-side two load ladder comparison using identical powder charges, five rounds each, were possible and to compare against the factory loads in the 5"barrel.



This was just one shooter, one gun, and one afternoon..


Well as per usual, the gun has its likes and dis-likes..
Range conditions were ideal. Temps never deviated from 59-60°
I've never loaded WSF in application before, and was pleasantly surprised at the small groups, but velocity was rather slow in keeping with published data.

Been wanting to compare Zip, HP-38 and 231 with equal charges.. That is on the far right.

The 231 target (27) does have five rounds. Two holes are actually doubles.

The tightest group were turned in with 231, 244, WSF, and N-320.
The tightest Standard Deviations turned in with 244, Bullseye, and BE-86.

Here is a graph to help visualize all this and see where the factory loads fall in.




That Rem-UMC load velocity is still hard to duplicate with 3.8-4.0 grs. of canister grade powder.

Velocity data taken from an Oehler Model 33; Skyscreens centered 8' from muzzle.
All the loads were hand weighed.

Here is a historical compilation of all the 158gr data I could find included on one chart;



Hope this was at least interesting, maybe helpful.

 

[HKSmith]

What a great post! You put a lot of work into this and I particularly appreciated the compilation of Reloading Manual data.

The bullet diameter of your Winchester ammo is way out of SAAMI specs for .38 Special lead bullets, which is 0.3560-0.3590 inches. I would think Winchester would replace it if you want to take the trouble to do that; I think it's defective with 0.01 undersize bullets.

I've sometimes tested 5 different loads in the same gun by shooting 10 round targets. I've also fired 5 consecutive 10 round targets with the same load and gotten the same distribution of results, so I decided that it takes larger samples and a Ransom rest to really detect small differences in loads. But, it's a lot of fun doing the experiments.

 

[Dieselhorses]

Don't think I'd be so quick to say that anything less than ".358" is too small. Pop cylinder out and see if the bullet drops in forcing cone OR try placing a bullet in at muzzle. Slug your barrel and if groove diameter comes in at .358 or more then what you assumed is right.

 

[Alk8944]

Don't depend on the diameter of swaged lead bullets to give any near an accurate idea of their diameter when originally loaded! being removed through the factory crimp will typically reduce the bullet diameter by .002" to .005" Besides the reduction caused by the neck tension of the cartridge when the bullet is originally seated!you measure a pulled bullet there is no way to accurately tell what it's original diameter was.

 

[Dieselhorses]

Don't depend on the diameter of swaged lead bullets to give any near an accurate idea of their diameter when originally loaded! being removed through the factory crimp will typically reduce the bullet diameter by .002" to .005" Besides the reduction caused by the neck tension of the cartridge when the bullet is originally seated!you measure a pulled bullet there is no way to accurately tell what it's original diameter was.

No, you can't depend on the size of a "swaged bullet" that you tapped down your bore. Especially on a 44 I own that comes out at .414 and I cast .429 bullets for. My 500 is .500 through and through aside from the "cylinder throat saga" (.499).

 

[RDub]

Don't think I'd be so quick to say that anything less than ".358" is too small. Pop cylinder out and see if the bullet drops in forcing cone OR try placing a bullet in at muzzle. Slug your barrel and if groove diameter comes in at .358 or more then what you assumed is right.

Hi
I actually did that with all the factory load bullets. All of them dropped right through all of the chambers. With the exception of the Federal bullet, they have hollow bases so maybe they obturate enough to make a seal..

I dropped a Sierra jacketed bullet that measured .3565" and it dropped through with a little resistance. Then I found a Hornady jacketed bullet that measured .3568" and that bullet required a very slight push with a pencil to get through. The Magtech bullets did not go through. So this gives us an idea of what the chamber throat dimensions are.

 

[Nevada Ed]

That is just the cylinder..........

The rifling and lands on your barrel is another story !!

Deep or shallow lands and groves can happen out of a factory with die wear.

All part of a weapons accuracy game, that we play with.

Some of those new powders are starting to grow on me, with all your test.
Thanks for all the data.

PS; per post #8
My M49 38 snub nose LOVES that 158 gr. Magtech LRN bullet with Trail Boss and Bullseye. OAL 1.55".
Beats all the Lwc bullets, OAL 1.48", hands down at light target speeds.

 

[RDub]

Was going to do this anyway, but since we're talkin about this I slugged the bore of the new gun and just for kicks the older 4" non-dash 686 using some of the Magtech RN bullets.



Well, they are very close..

The new gun has been shooting cast bullet loads very well. Good to know it is in spec.

 

[Nevada Ed]

It is interesting how different bullets with the "same" overall Dia.
from different makers, "Print" going through the barrel.
These two ended up inside a cardboard box, that had a target taped to it
on one of the outing with the lady's.
I think they hit the sand in front of the target and rolled into the box?
I noticed the box rattled when I picked it up......... then found the bullets.

 

[bigggbbruce]

Purchased a new Performance Center 5" 686-6 Plus and have been putting it through some paces. One of the areas of curiosity is how it will shoot 158gr Lead RN 38 Specials.



Well as per usual, the gun has its likes and dis-likes..

And mine are different. What works in yours is fine. I have load data I use. No need to change now.