New 686 Plus Poor QC

[buckhammer]

I purchased the below referenced revolver new online (Gunbroker) and had to return it to on receipt due to poor QC. On the S&W website, I requested the contact information (name, position, and email) for someone in S&W management so I can insure my concerns are heard. Below is the text of my warranty repair request that accompanied the new revolver I had to return. This is the second new revolver I've had to return in 3 years.

S&W 686-6 Revolver Talo Edition 5", S/N CXT1XXX
Owner - John XXX
Hello,
I purchased this new revolver online (Gunbroker) and when I received it, I noticed several cosmetic problems. This is the second new S&W I have purchased and have had to send it back immediately upon receipt (the first was an engraved mod 29 with a double action reset hang-up). When I pay premium for an S&W, I expect what I pay for. I'll be posting a copy of this letter on the various forums and forwarding a copy to S&W management. I'm very disappointed in S&W quality control recently, 2 for 2 returns over a 3 year span is indicative of poor QC and reflects poorly on S&W leadership.
I have outlined the external areas on the revolver that need attention. Given the nature of these issues and the unnecessary hassle, I'm also requesting the internals be cleaned and checked. This revolver should have never got past QC.
• Scratches on left and right of frame
• Underside of grip is split at back of trigger-guard
• Burr on cylinder ratchet
• Barrel alignment, clocked too far left as viewed from breech
• Hammer and trigger color case hardening looks more like Parkerizing, my Taurus revolvers have much better CCH…sad

Please call me with any questions.

John

 

[GatorFarmer]

There is no way to know when scratches happened. That part of things would not necessarily be a factory issue.

 

[zzzippper]

Sorry to hear that. I just bought an immaculate 586.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I am sorry to hear that, but I do not buy expensive guns online for that reason. I have a theory that the factory seconds are more often sold online. There are several pristine 686's and 586's in this town that I am looking forward to acquiring. I hope that it gets better for you.

 

[rwsmith]

Aren't the hammer and trigger...

Aren't the hammer and trigger MIM parts? Do they case harden MIM parts?

 

[gunnails]

I'm sorry for your troubles buckhammer.

Can you post the pictures documenting all these flaws?

And let us know how it looks when you get it back, I'm curious as to how they are going to resolve the trigger and hammer issue for you.

 

[buckhammer]

Pictures and Follow-Up

Pictures Attached. I received a reply from S&W customer service addressed to me saying they will forward my email to management for review and that S&W values it customers.... Later that day, I received another reply addressed to someone named Paul saying thank you for contacting S&W...whatever that means. I also uploaded pictures. Not only am I just a number, I'm two different numbers! Not a lot of faith that my emails/pics/concerns will go anywhere, this is more a matter of principle. Done everything I can do, now I just wait 1 to 3 months to get my revolver back.

 

[buckhammer]

Hammer and Trigger MIM?

I believe the hammer and trigger are MIM and that Taurus Intl. Manf. is the supplier for their MIM parts. I can see some MIM seams on backside of trigger. I know Taurus hammer and triggers are MIM and they are beautifully CCH...

 

[theoneff]

Just my opinion but in the picture the barrel looks straight. Not the best pictures though so cant tell much from the others

 

[ankona]

Barrel alignment appears to be OK based on pic. I would not be concerned with those cosmetic issues but that's me. I use my guns, they are tools and they are going to accumulate some minor cosmetic dings anyway. You should go shoot this weapon if you have not already and see how it performs.

 

[Voyager28]

Umm, well, looking at the photo of the chambers, IMHO, that is this might not a NIB gun. I see signs of residue in all of the chambers. Did the listing say NIB or LNIB? Sounds nit picky but can be a big difference.

Plus, I would think the seller would bear some of the responsibility for the condition of the gun and how it was represented in the listing.

Lastly, might not be the smartest thing to threaten a company you are seeking relief from. Just saying.

Good luck, I sincerely hope you can get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Bob

 

[Bob1943]

Sorry to hear about your problem. I have previously posted about my recent search for a 686. In the past 6 to 7 months, I have inspected 10 Model 686s and 2 Model 686 Plus revolvers at local gun stores. All 12 either had a canted barrel and/or, frame scratches that were as bad , if not worse, than what your pictures show. So, I sympathize with your frustration.

The one that I found that had a straight barrel, had, as noted above, frame scratches. I told the dealer that I would buy it if S&W would ship it back to the factory and remove the scratches. Got S&W on the phone and explained the problem and asked for their help in removing the scratches. Their reply was that they would not bring a new gun back to the factory for cosmetic flaws. They correctly stated that it was the buyer's responsibility to inspect the gun before purchase and to not buy the gun if the cosmetics were unacceptable. They went on to say that they were not responsible for scratches that occurred after the gun leaves the factory. Who is to say when the scratches occurred? They were implying that the gun was mishandled at the LGS and not at the factory.

As a result, I will never buy an S&W online. I am limiting my shopping to an LGS where I can thoroughly inspect the gun before purchase. I have bought Rugers online that arrived with cosmetic flaws and Ruger took them back for refinishing, on their dime, no questions asked.

 

[MichiganScott]

The scratches look like handling marks to me and the barrel looks straight from the picture. Your issue should be with the seller, not S&W.

 

[mag318]

I recently was looking at a 3" 686 Plus at a local shop and all looked good. The action was smooth with perfect timing. I held it up to the light to look at the barrel cylinder gap which also was fine. But then I noticed that I could see light between the top and bottom of the barrel and the frame. It looked as if the barrel was backed out of the frame a turn. Needless to say I passed on it but reinforces why I always like to handle any firearm prior to purchase.

 

[rz625-8]

That is why you should buy from your local gun store than on the web. Now you know. I am a whole saler and I inspect each firearm that comes in. If anything wrong with it,I call my rep,hr sends me new firearm and I send the damaged one back on their[factory] on their dime.

 

[S&W SS Revolvers]

I recently was looking at a 3" 686 Plus at a local shop and all looked good. The action was smooth with perfect timing. I held it up to the light to look at the barrel cylinder gap which also was fine. But then I noticed that I could see light between the top and bottom of the barrel and the frame. It looked as if the barrel was backed out of the frame a turn. Needless to say I passed on it but reinforces why I always like to handle any firearm prior to purchase.

With the posts read here it seems obvious that there are some "issues" at S&W which is to say the least discouraging. We've purchase 2 new revolvers since 12/26/14 and per the statement above; I inspected both personally due to the recommendations read in this forum. We are pleased with both.

In business to business to business selling semi trailers with a million (exageration) problems created by "factory" QC problems I learned many years ago (the hard way) to attempt to work through those problems privately before pulling out the big guns. "Big guns" being things like threats or posts (these days) on web sites etc. I work through the proper channels and protocol first...then if things ain't moving in the right direction (99% of the time they do) I pull out the big guns.

Making an enemy before they've had a chance to correct things hasn't worked at all or at least has with limited success for me personally.

This is not being critical of your correspondence with S&W; it's simply what has worked for me. That is all...

 

[RubenZ]

First of all, when you buy a gun online and it's not to your satisfaction you are to refuse it at FFL and have it sent back.

Second, scratches like ones you posted are almost not from factory. Those were probably handled poorly at the gun dealer, someone maybe bought it, returned it to dealer, who knows. Guns can sit at a dealer for months and years being handled,layed on glass tables, people try holstering them from display case, and on and on.

Third, you should never post negative comments about a companies QC issues before you even give them the chance to make it right, that's not nice.

That is all

 

[65ny]

This dead horse has been beaten enough, but have you considered using a little polish on those scratches, and some fine sandpaper to knock down the burrs? You could probably have that piece looking pretty spiffy in about an hour and not have to deal with shipping it off. Those little marks wouldn't bother me much. You have to take the wrapper off it it eventually.

 

[Edmo]

To the OP, based on the problems I have experienced with my last S&W acquisition (640-1 Pro Series), the company has let their QC slip.

I didn't get it through my LGS or dealer after it was handled for months and it didn't come from some on-line source. My gun shipped directly from S&W so there is no "the middleman did it" excuse.

They fixed the three glaring fit and finish issues. However, one of the problems with my gun was also a clocked barrel. I've now sent it back twice for this problem and it still isn't perfectly straight.

Like it or not, bad ones are slipping through. I've owned four new (NIB) S&W revolvers over the last three years. Three had to go back... Two had to be replaced.

Edmo

 

[RubenZ]

Just because some of you have gotten some Poor QC smiths doesn't mean their QC is slipping. Every company that provides a product has a percentage of QC problematic products that slip out. It's just normal business practice. THe problem is that now more than ever people are buying GUNS left and right, companies are developing way more products than before to meet the demands of specific markets. Now we have more women than ever getting into handguns, so we have smaller, lighter, guns being produced.

With the growing number of gun sales comes a slightly growing number of problematic products that slip through. The Greatness and Quality of a manufacturer comes into play when their customer support makes it right.