New 686 plus with cracked grip frame

[Dave T]

Those of you saying S&W didn't see this are making excuses for them.

I can easily imagine someone at the factory noticing this crack and deciding the grips would cover it and 80% of gun buyers will never remove the grips so "no one will ever know".

It's in a none stress area and I'd bet they figured it would be cheeper to send it out, with the probability it would never be seen, than to junk a nearly or completely finished revolver.

Sad commentary on S&W and on the times we are living in.

Dave

 

[OLDSTER]

No excuses for S&W

There is absolutely no excuse for S&W ( at least the new-age version of S&W ) to put out some of the junk they have recently. I can picture their so-called Customer Service Department ( that's if there is one) occupied by a bunch of former shoe salesmen and car wash attendants spending all their time on their phones, with zero experience in handgun design, manufacture, or intended function. What do they care ? low pay, no benefits and waiting to see the babes at the bar about 5:00. Now that's my rant, and if I offended someone that's just too damn bad.

 

[Russell420]

Sent the gun off today to S&W with a note explaining that I prefer the firearm be replaced. We'll see what happens. After the past 5 handgun purchases this year (4 Sig P320s and this S&W), I'm ready for a little good news. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Triggernosis]

Is there a particular time period that quality at S&W started going downhill?

 

[ladder13]

How can this be. Forgings are so superior to MIM. LOL

Actually I would bet that there was a flaw in the initial billet that was not visible. Probably didn't show after forging and even most of the machining. Possibly enlarged when piece was heat treated but maybe not. I once ground a knife blade from a piece of high quality German D2 tool steel. Heat treated it along with some others . Didn't see anything unusual until I was doing the final finish with high grit sand paper. Small scratch that wouldn't go away. Got suspicious and checked it with dye penetrate and then flexed it. SNAP. Once it was broke I could clearly see the flaw which I am sure was from the initial billet and survived being rolled into plate and being sheared into strips, being ground and heat treated. Might not have opened up until some small stress was put on it if I had hot noticed the "scratch"

I am sure S&W will replace it.

Good to hear from someone who actually has some metal working experience.

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

Well. Seems about in line with the quality I have been seeing during this whole ordeal with my 627 that's on its way back for the 3rd time to the factory

 

[Walkingwolf]

That grip frame should NOT be repaired! Has to be replaced because you can't see how far that flaw runs inside the casting. Make it very clear to the customer service know-nothings that repair is a non-starter.

Good luck.

S&W are forged, not cast. But I agree that cannot be repaired, apparently the metal used for the forging had contamination. Even if dropped on the shop floor it should not have cracked.

 

[steelslaver]

Those of you saying S&W didn't see this are making excuses for them.
Dave

I am not making excuses for them. A crack like that should have been visible, even if it had not opened up much.

I also am not impressed with S&W lack of real quality control and the percentage of guns with serious flaws. Some people are a little bit nit picky, but, when you start getting a reputation for shoddy work, people are going to be much more critical and notice more. Thinks like 1 or 2 degrees of out of clock might not get noticed or really effect much, but when its a known problem people are going to look a lot harder, same thing goes for all the rest, finish flaws, poor forcing cones, muzzle and barrel flaws.

They are making a poor bed and are going to have to sleep in it. Even if they make a huge leap in quality control it will be a while before people have faith and be more willing to give them a pass on some of the minor stuff.

Will it stop me from buying a recent manufacture S&W I want? No, but I wouldn't just say I'll take it and walk out without going over it with a critical eye. There was a day when you could see it and say I want it and if they handed you one in the box you went home a happy camper. That ship has sailed. Lucky for me I really want for nothing in the revolver department except the right deal on some older stuff. Need to sell way more than need to buy. LOL.

 

[-db-]

Does S&W Magnaflux/MPI each frame before it goes out? Assuming they do some kind of integrity testing, that should have caught this even if the crack had not yet visibly revealed itself.

 

[Triggernosis]

I am not making excuses for them. A crack like that should have been visible, even if it had not opened up much.

I also am not impressed with S&W lack of real quality control and the percentage of guns with serious flaws. Some people are a little bit nit picky, but, when you start getting a reputation for shoddy work, people are going to be much more critical and notice more. Thinks like 1 or 2 degrees of out of clock might not get noticed or really effect much, but when its a known problem people are going to look a lot harder, same thing goes for all the rest, finish flaws, poor forcing cones, muzzle and barrel flaws.

They are making a poor bed and are going to have to sleep in it. Even if they make a huge leap in quality control it will be a while before people have faith and be more willing to give them a pass on some of the minor stuff.
.

This happened with Ruger revolvers several years ago (around the year 2010 people started complaining about barrel alignment problems). They were sending out revolvers with clockef barrels about 5 years ago I'd say probably 75% of the ones that I saw in gun shops had clocked barrels) and so many consumers complained that something happened and they fixed it. As a result, I have not seen a single clocked Ruger barrel in quite a while.
I think Smith & Wesson needs to call Ruger and see what they did to fix their problem.

 

[Pisgah]

Is there a particular time period that quality at S&W started going downhill?

Judging by what I have read/heard over my past 55 or so years owning and shooting their guns and following their press, I'd say about 1880.

Not saying they haven't had their problems from time to time -- every maker of any sort of mass-produced mechanism can have QC troubles --, but it really seems that every generation decries the "death of quality at S&W"...

It always pays to keep in mind that on this forum, or any other brand-dedicated firearms forum, the participants are the folks most interested in and critical of the product, and the ones most likely to yelp at every problem found, no matter how inconsequential or (in some cases) even imaginary the problem might be. Meanwhile, 10's of 1000's of other owners and users go blissfully on their way, completely unaware that their prized firearms are nothing more than shoddy junk...

 

[Triggernosis]

Pisgah, I can appreciate what you're saying, but I am a very loyal Smith & Wesson fan but I am appalled at what I have seen over the past 10 212 years from Smith & Wesson. I mean, a $900 revolver with the Smith & Wesson name and ".357 Magnum - 8 Times" stamped onto the barrel at about a 10 degree angle? Come on!

 

[6string]

As bad as this crack is, it is even worse when you look at it from a symptomatic standpoint. By this I mean not just the material factors behind the crack or the QC issues that allowed this to get through inspection, but what this means in terms of more critical yet less obvious flaws in the design, materials, and manufacturing of various components.
Also, what does this say about the quality of their workforce, be it the guys "in the trenches" or the "suits" calling the shots?
Might not be too big a deal if this stuff wasn't becoming so commonplace.
Sheesh!

 

[ontargetagain]

Oddly above the backstrap onto the flat surface it looks like it has been scuffed or filed or sanded or is it something you did to evaluate the split?
Karl

 

[Russell420]

Oddly above the backstrap onto the flat surface it looks like it has been scuffed or filed or sanded or is it something you did to evaluate the split?
Karl

Other than take the screw out of the rubber grips and remove each one, I've done nothing to the grip frame: no scuffing, filing, sanding, dropping, chiseling, carving, etc. ; )

 

[Capttjk1]

Sent the gun off today to S&W with a note explaining that I prefer the firearm be replaced. We'll see what happens. After the past 5 handgun purchases this year (4 Sig P320s and this S&W), I'm ready for a little good news. Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, I just bought a SIG P320 back in June. Now they have issued the "voluntary trigger upgrade". Fancy way of saying "recall".

 

[D Brown]

This happened with Ruger revolvers several years ago (around the year 2010 people started complaining about barrel alignment problems). They were sending out revolvers with clockef barrels about 5 years ago I'd say probably 75% of the ones that I saw in gun shops had clocked barrels) and so many consumers complained that something happened and they fixed it. As a result, I have not seen a single clocked Ruger barrel in quite a while.
I think Smith & Wesson needs to call Ruger and see what they did to fix their problem.

Maybe Ruger hired away all of Smith & Wesson's experienced Barrel Fitters?

 

[Arik]

OK, that's it, I've heard enough about poor quality from S&W the past few years, including me own experience with a 317 that they never could get right and I ended up selling for a substantial loss. In addition, I bought a new 642 this year that had to go back immediately due to the cylinder being almost impossible to open.
I'm buying ONE more S&W, a 3rd generation gun, probably a 3913, and I'm done! They can choose someone else to be their quality control monkey besides me. One more - that's it! And it's going to be a used older one.

So what does it mean when I saw a model 28 with a crooked barrel? Is it just a unicorn? Was I dreaming? Gun is roughly 40 years old

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[Arik]

Those of you saying S&W didn't see this are making excuses for them.

I can easily imagine someone at the factory noticing this crack and deciding the grips would cover it and 80% of gun buyers will never remove the grips so "no one will ever know".

It's in a none stress area and I'd bet they figured it would be cheeper to send it out, with the probability it would never be seen, than to junk a nearly or completely finished revolver.

Sad commentary on S&W and on the times we are living in.

Dave

So it's a fact that they saw it? You witnessed it? And what times are we living in exactly? Please see my post above and explain how it can happen when supposed problems are only a few years old. I'm expecting to see each and every 40+ year old revolver to be PERFECT as this is what I'm told here!

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[Arik]

Quality control didn't change. The internet changed. Who media you guys use to complain to the world in the 60s?

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