New 686 plus with cracked grip frame

[6string]

Do these revolvers come packed with "inspected by" information?
Heck, even a new pair of underwear has an inspection decal! Ideally, shouldn't there be a supervisor who must be able to corroborate between defective products and habitually incompetent inspectors?

With the pre-war Colt Shooting Master, if one was returned to the factory for repair, they made the original fitting gunsmith stay after hours to do the repair work on their own time!

 

[Triggernosis]

So it's a fact that they saw it? You witnessed it? And what times are we living in exactly? Please see my post above and explain how it can happen when supposed problems are only a few years old. I'm expecting to see each and every 40+ year old revolver to be PERFECT as this is what I'm told here!

No, that's not what you're being told. What you are being told is that for the past several years quality from S&W, including improperly clocked barrels, is much worse than it was "back in the day". Noone has said they were perfect before - just that they are FAR from it now.

 

[Pisgah]

Might not be too big a deal if this stuff wasn't becoming so commonplace.

And just how commonplace is it? What's the percentage of significant QC failures theses days?

Fact is, you don't know and neither do I. It seems like it's high -- but that's based solely on what we see here. And as I have already stated, what we see here cannot be assumed to be typical of their total production, or of typical customer satisfaction.

It's like the common perception that overall violent crime rates have skyrocketed when in fact violent crimes in the US are lower today than they were 40 years ago. It's the fact that violent crimes are reported so widely, so much more quickly, and so much more loudly than they used to be that creates the perception -- a false perception.

Think about it -- if the current news being reported on the Internet and on the air reflected reality, neo-Nazis would be demonstrating on every street corner, Nazi flags would be flying off the front porches of every other house in half the neighborhoods in the country, and every stadium in the country would be booked for Nazi mass rallies.

 

[Zipdog]

Oddly above the backstrap onto the flat surface it looks like it has been scuffed or filed or sanded or is it something you did to evaluate the split?
Karl

Did you see bigfoot too?

 

[Arik]

No, that's not what you're being told. What you are being told is that for the past several years quality from S&W, including improperly clocked barrels, is much worse than it was "back in the day". Noone has said they were perfect before - just that they are FAR from it now.

How do we know there is more when all we have to go by are complaints on the internet? If you had actual figures of guns sold vs defective guns I'd understand that "back in the day" until then all we know is when someone complains. You only see complaints so you wouldn't have a proper view of the whole picture. What I bought 20 perfect new revolvers last week but didn't post a peep about them because there was nothing to post about? No defects! Is that taken into consideration when analyzing "back in the day"? When a shop in Moose Fart MN received 32 defective revolvers in 1934/56/62/77/84 would you know about it living in Taxes or Florida or California or even a 100 miles away?

Now, when I'm online complaining about my poor QC revolver and I post my problem here under the name Arik but then I go on another forum and post the same problem under a different name does it become 2 problems or one?

The ONLY way to know is to know total sales vs returns. Otherwise all your going by is what someone online is crying about.


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[jhnttrpp]

The butt of the frame was placed in a vise. It may not have been held firmly enough. It was was then torqued or twisted around at the barrel. That crack looks like it goes all the way through. Could you show us some photos of the other side straight on. Just for our amateur sleuthing.

 

[steelslaver]

ARIK does raise a very valid point. In todays world everyone has a computer and a search function. In the 1980s when I bought a model 18 and it had a rough trigger and the barrel started unscrewing computers pretty basic and the net was only a fantasy. Only ones who heard me whine were S& and a couple friends.

I suspect the problem is somewhat magnified. But, it is still troubling when you see things like this crack and hear of so many mis timed barrels. Getting a barrel on in time just isn't that hard. Seeing it is considerably out of time is also easy. Some of the things we see posted are very visible to the naked eye and should have never left the factory in 1935 I highly doubt the did. But, if one did get past the complaint didn't spread to wide,

I have worked with a lot of steel in various forms. Once seen a very high dollar brand new 5% chrome, 600psi, 10" check valve spray out the side when installed in a line and line was hydro tested. Forged and machined. Many people handled it during shipping, receiving, QC had PMIed it to check the alloy, men rigged it and installed it. QC inspected bolt up. NOBODY saw the small crack that opened up under pressure.

Sometimes an inclusion (small impurity or void in initial casting of billet) will not show up until significantly stressed. X raying all the frames would be expensive, mag fluxing time consuming, ultra sound difficult on odd shaped pieces. Best solution would be ultra sounding reduced billets right before being chopped up for forging

 

[jhnttrpp]

So it's a fact that they saw it? You witnessed it? And what times are we living in exactly? Please see my post above and explain how it can happen when supposed problems are only a few years old. I'm expecting to see each and every 40+ year old revolver to be PERFECT as this is what I'm told here!

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He didn't say he saw it. He said "I can easily imagine"

 

[Pef]

Regarding the OP's revolver, that's too bad. I'm sure S&W will replace it.

Regarding the "quality decline" comments, I have no idea is S&W "quality decline" is a truism. As Arik noted, back in the pre-Internet era all these problems were local. Now someone has an issue and it's posted for everyone in the world (literally) to see.

Another problem is the velocity of information and the echo chambers. You see this especially with social media. Little problems become "big" problems quickly. Tweets, re-tweets, links, etc. Suddenly there are encyclopedic volumes on "problems." Google "S&W" "Canted barrel" and see what you get.

I have some S&W revolvers from each decade starting from the 1950's. A couple of them have a few quirks. One had a hitchy trigger that I fixed. One model 36 from the 1970's had a lose yoke just like a 60-14 I purchased about five years ago.

My point here is that to claim S&W QA is going down without any supporting evidence seems, to me, to be an emotional response that is not based in fact. I will stand corrected if the evidence bears out the claim.

 

[CH4]

What a coincidence! I dated Brandy Newhouse back in highschool!

Me, you and everyone else

Smith will replace without resistance.

 

[bjrjar]

It takes much more time to build a good reputation than it does to destroy it. Especially since the internet developed.

Good luck with getting the problem resolved.

Bob


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[gman51]

S&W really has no option other than replace your gun with another gun because the frame is where the serial number is stamped.
They could weld it and grind it smooth but I don't see them spending that much time and then you still notice what they did.
LOL Don't shoot me, what am I worried for you sent the gun back, but S&W might just put a new one piece grip on it so the crack isn't visible. They might figure out of sight out of mind.
All I can say is I sure am glad my 627-5 wasn't a factory shoulda been rejected gun. S&W isn't the only one having problems with new gun problems. All a person can hope for is the CS will make it right with the customer. Like has been stated the companies are just trying to get as many guns out the door as possible while guns are still selling like crazy.

 

[ladder13]

He didn't say he saw it. He said "I can easily imagine"

Exactly.

I think Arik is saying people are throwing out assumptions about the workings of S&W without witnessing any of it.

 

[Engineer1911]

OK, that's it, I've heard enough about poor quality from S&W the past few years ........ I'm buying ONE more S&W, a 3rd generation gun, probably a 3913, and I'm done! ......... One more - that's it!

Just out of curiosity, do you know how many posters / members have said, "Just one more, I'm done!" ? You are delusional, off your meds, or simply kidding yourself, and lying to us. I made that statement more than once. Since December 2016 I have only bought four more good deals -- 2 were S&W revolvers. I did sell two Ruger #1 rifles, though.

Don't disappoint your self. You will buy more, now go in peace and accept that.

 

[ladder13]

Maybe Ruger hired away all of Smith & Wesson's experienced Barrel Fitters?

Was that before or after the many Redhawk barrels fell off?

 

[black1970]

I am sorry but I cannot advise anyone on this forum as to the QC at Smith and Wesson or the new Remlins vs. the old Marlin rifles. I have been warned by the mods not to do this so I will refrain from it. Thank you kindly.

 

[Arik]

I am sorry but I cannot advise anyone on this forum as to the QC at Smith and Wesson or the new Remlins vs. the old Marlin rifles. I have been warned by the mods not to do this so I will refrain from it. Thank you kindly.

So why post it? What did that accomplish....or help?

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[Triggernosis]

So why post it? What did that accomplish....or help?

Exactly. And who is he - does he work for S&W or something?

 

[llowry61]

Interesting thread and many salient points have been made. I will add my thoughts as well. First of all no QC is perfect, both the manufacturer and the consumer know this. That is why companies have warranties that are generally commensurate with the items cost. High cost items tend to have more extensive warranties. Warranties help the customer offset the risk incurred when making the purchase and help the manufacturer differentiate their products in the market place.

With all of that said, the question becomes, how does the company resolve issues when they arise ?

I can tell you that I have sent in guns made in the 80's and S&W has done warranty work no questions asked.

To me that is a positive.

I don't buy guns with the locks, so I haven't made a new production revolver purchase recently. I have bought quite a few plastic guns, both rifles and pistols and no issues.

I am sure the company measures returns, warranty work cycle time, defect trends and reacts to manufacturing processes running outside the prescribed control limits.

What does it all mean? Companies produce bad items and the good companies take care of their mistakes. From my experience, S&W is doing that.

Another variable that has to be considered is that CS is controlled by people. Sometimes they screw up the CS process like the poster who has a pistol on the way back for a 3rd time. That is a bad deal and one that hopefully gets escalated to an executive to make it right. I know in our company multiple disputes or complaints go up the chain for that reason. Upper level management has the authority to do what has to be done to protect the companies reputation.

Take care and I hope the individuals who purchased the defective items get them resolved quickly and to their satisfaction.

One other note, if you are buying new you might consider asking the sales person to bring out 2 of the item you wish to purchase. You can then inspect both and choose which one you want. I have done this in the past and have been surprised at the difference in wood grain checkering etc. They don't always have 2, but it is worth a try.

L

 

[dogdoc]

Judging by what I have read/heard over my past 55 or so years owning and shooting their guns and following their press, I'd say about 1880.

Not saying they haven't had their problems from time to time -- every maker of any sort of mass-produced mechanism can have QC troubles --, but it really seems that every generation decries the "death of quality at S&W"...

It always pays to keep in mind that on this forum, or any other brand-dedicated firearms forum, the participants are the folks most interested in and critical of the product, and the ones most likely to yelp at every problem found, no matter how inconsequential or (in some cases) even imaginary the problem might be. Meanwhile, 10's of 1000's of other owners and users go blissfully on their way, completely unaware that their prized firearms are nothing more than shoddy junk...

Agree 100 percent. I have Smiths from the 1960s forward and I can find small abnormalities on just about all. I think the 1970s and 1980s have the most. Years ago I used to worry about that after reading on these forums but I realized these are mass produced and to expect perfection is folly. If there is a major issue like this crack, Smith will take care of it. I think with modern machining they are better than ever for shooters. Side plates fit better,timing is usually dead on and durability is better than ever. I do not like the lock but I can get past it. Most of the problems then and now do not keep the guns from shooting so many people do not pay attention. Only people like us who are enthusiastic about the guns tend to notice the smaller things.

Dogdoc