NEW ATF DIRECTIVE considered on 5.56 ammo

[X Ring Ranch]

Admin Edit-
Cross posting is frowned upon, but I'm putting this up in 3 forums- Ammo, Lounge, and M&P15.
We want to get the word out.
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ATF is considering a ban on SS109 ammo!
("Green Tip" 5.56mm NATO aka M855)

It was originally exempted from the Armor Piercing ban because it was a rifle cartridge with a legitimate sporting use, i.e. target shooting.

With the availability of AR type handguns, this ammo is now endangered under the ban on armor piercing handgun ammo!

See the complete document here-
http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi..._primarily_intended_for_sporting_purposes.pdf

ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015

Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method)

ATF website - [email protected] Follow the instructions for submitting comment

Fax: (202) 648-9741

Mail:
Denise Brown Attn: AP Ammo Comments
Mailstop 6N-602 - Office of Regulatory Affairs
BATFE
99 New York Avenue
Washington, DC 2022

PLEASE comment, but keep it reasonable, folks.
Cussing them out will NOT help us!

 

[Muss Muggins]

Cliff Notes: The development of AR platform pistols killed the exemption for 5.56 mm AP rounds. Can't make any new ammo, but can keep the stuff you already have.

 

[Rick_A]

It was never an exemption. M855/SS109 had never been considered armored piercing as less than half the mass of the projectile is steel...and it is mild steel at that.

Don't believe the lies of their whimsical decrees. AR pistols have been around since the 80's. I think the current popularity is getting their attention lately (the Sig Brace opinion, for instance).

It's a big load of bull. Something must be done. One of my guns shoots M855/SS109 really well, so it really hits a nerve for me.

 

[pinduck]

Its 17 pages of drivel to tell you we may decide at any time to change definitions to suit ourselves.

 

[BigBill]

The marlin 444 will shoot through 3/8" boiler plate steel. It was advertised as doing that at one-time. The 30-06 hunting rounds will shoot through steel. No ap is needed.

 

[Muss Muggins]

It was never an exemption. M855/SS109 had never been considered armored piercing as less than half the mass of the projectile is steel...and it is mild steel at that.

Don't believe the lies of their whimsical decrees. AR pistols have been around since the 80's. I think the current popularity is getting their attention lately (the Sig Brace opinion, for instance).

It's a big load of bull. Something must be done. One of my guns shoots M855/SS109 really well, so it really hits a nerve for me.

So this is an incorrect statement in the letter?

Between 1986 and 2011, ATF received few exemption requests for armor piercing ammunition. In 1986, ATF exempted 5.56 mm (.223) SS109 and M855 “green tip” ammunition containing a steel core.

Is the stated exemption for different ammunition than what you're talking about? I don't know a whole lot about that kind of ammunition, so I'm trying to learn.

 

[hoc9sw]

I guess my LGS will regret having put all of that gree-tip 5.56 on sale at the end of the year for dirt cheap. Now there will be a run. The small businessman never wins.

 

[yaktamer]

So it was perfectly ok for me to have M855 ammo to shoot in my rifle, but because somebody decided to make a handgun that can use it (and will have LESS penetration due to lower velocity) I can't have it anymore? Makes sense.

 

[Smitty357]

Now for the funny facts. M855 pentrates more, rather than make a bigger wound channel. The military dropped this ammo because of the over penetration. The ammo would pass clean through targets even after several hits. Thus leaving the target in the fight for awhile before they may have later died.

So what the ATF is saying. Is that they are banning this less lethal round because of over penetration. But they are allowing us to keep other rounds that are much more dangerous and designed to make a serious wound channel.

 

[mstem]

Seems to me it's time to shut down the BATFE. Last one out, turn off the lights.

 

[just jim]

Sometimes common sense does not prevail. When something is banned the criminals go to something else in escalation. If you banned handguns the criminals would use rifles that are far more deadly than handguns. You would think because the AR pistols are so poorly designed and don't run well that you would want the bad guys carrying them.

Just like Saturday night special bans, get rid of the cheap lousy guns and criminals will become armed with better guns. Our cops would be much better off without the senseless escalation. Better to fight a bad guy with a crummy gun than him stealing a 7 mm mag to do his crimes with.

We do need to get rid of the BATFE , the FBI does most of their work for them and they are an antiquated beuracratic mess that can't get paperwork out in months and months.

 

[billwill]

Ya know...you wonder where these people come from sometimes. I guess they spend 24 hours a day trying to figure out new ways to screw things up. I bet they never got a cap gun or BB gun from Santa and they have been PO'd ever since.

 

[Lt JL]

That green paint comes off real easily. Just sayin...

 

[walkin jack]

Well that sounds about right. If you do have to shoot someone you should only shoot them a little bit. Don't want to do any serious damage... Sigh......

 

[Bob R]

Now for the funny facts. M855 pentrates more, rather than make a bigger wound channel. The military dropped this ammo because of the over penetration. The ammo would pass clean through targets even after several hits. Thus leaving the target in the fight for awhile before they may have later died.

As was found out at the Battle of Mogadishu when the rounds were just drilling little holes straight through the people being shot. They had no armor to defeat, just thin cotton shirts.

bob

 

[gjamison]

Ban on 223 ammo?

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150213/batfe-to-ban-common-ar-15-ammo

Can someone explain this?

 

[handejector]

That green paint comes off real easily. Just sayin...

If they ban it, possession of what you already have will be OK.

Manufacture and import will cease.

 

[gjamison]

So we will still be able to buy regular 55gr .223 ammo?

 

[Lycan]

From what I understand, the ban will be for the 62 gr M855 ammo with the steel core. As mentioned, it really shouldn't be considered as AP ammo in the first place, but the ATF, in it's infinite retardation, decided to classify it as such but then provided an exemption for it. It is the "Exemption" that they want to repeal. Stupidity knows no bounds with that agency.

The overall effect? Well, just try to buy some of it right now. I have seen a few places that still have it, but soon it will be all out of stock and the price on what remains will be ridiculous...even before the exemption repeal is decided.

 

[BigBoy99]

From what I understand, the ban will be for the 62 gr M855 ammo with the steel core. As mentioned, it really shouldn't be considered as AP ammo in the first place, but the ATF, in it's infinite retardation, decided to classify it as such but then provided an exemption for it. It is the "Exemption" that they want to repeal. Stupidity knows no bounds with that agency.

The overall effect? Well, just try to buy some of it right now. I have seen a few places that still have it, but soon it will be all out of stock and the price on what remains will be ridiculous...even before the exemption repeal is decided.

The armor which is being talked about is Kevlar body armor, NOT metal vehicle armor. When handgun ammunition is armor piercing, it will penetrate Kevlar body armor. Basically any rifle will penetrate Kevlar body armor as most body armor is only handgun rated and using a rifle is just a total over match for the armor. When a handgun fires rifle caliber ammunition against handgun rated body armor, almost any round will be "armor piercing."

This all goes back to when the media frenzy was Teflon coated "Cop Killer" bullets which could penetrate Kevlar body armor. They were designated as AP by the BATF and the road to banning AP ammunition was started.