NEW DEPARTURE 32 with ORIGINAL BOX

[Mikebiker]

While standing around in the local shop today this little gun walked in. I had to have it. It has been stored away for a very long time. The newspaper is dated April 27 1894. A bit hard to read but the box is numbered to the gun in pencil.

 

[mrcvs]

Any idea where the newspaper was published?

A NIB Safety Hammerless that is an antique (I assume yours is because of the April 27, 1894 dated newspaper can push $1000 or even a few dollars more these days. Great find!

 

[murphydog]

Very nice! Guns of this era are still occasionally seen in as new condition, but boxes in the same shape much less so.

Any idea if it came from the original owner's family, or a collection?

 

[gmborkovic]

Well, we dont have to worry about the grips matching.

 

[pmanton]

Wow !! What a find.

 

[Dosgatos]

I have the same gun in the same box, with a different end label. Mine is #35647, which shipped in June of 1892. The price on the receipt from Iver Johnson Sporting Goods Co, is for $34.45, which includes revolver, holster, shells (and something else I can't make out). I don't know if this is a new or used price, and the receipt is not dated. Seems expensive for the 1890s, so probably a used price.

 

[Mikebiker]

I think it may have been a family gun from the man who brought it in. He said they really had no use for it and asked about value. I said around 500 and we agreed on that. The shop owner was sitting there so I gave the guy is cut of the 500 and the shop owner is commission on the 500 and all was well. Antique so no paperwork involved. This is one of the nicest old boxes I have seen. The paper is from new York. The gun and box are really nothing out of the ordinary but the condition is what sets it apart from the others. Frozen in time for 130 years.

 

[murphydog]

I have the same gun in the same box, with a different end label. Mine is #35647, which shipped in June of 1892. The price on the receipt from Iver Johnson Sporting Goods Co, is for $34.45, which includes revolver, holster, shells (and something else I can't make out). I don't know if this is a new or used price, and the receipt is not dated. Seems expensive for the 1890s, so probably a used price.

Another cool gun. I can't make out the last part either - perhaps the signature of the clerk who sold it?

I really like the notation on the top of the receipt:

"Customers will Confer a Great Favor by Reporting any Inattention or Want of Civility on the Part of (sic) Employes."

If we had to enforce that rule in the current age that .32 would probably have to be used. A lot.

 

[MHF]

Oil
Freight?

 

[mrcvs]

I have the same gun in the same box, with a different end label. Mine is #35647, which shipped in June of 1892. The price on the receipt from Iver Johnson Sporting Goods Co, is for $34.45, which includes revolver, holster, shells (and something else I can't make out). I don't know if this is a new or used price, and the receipt is not dated. Seems expensive for the 1890s, so probably a used price.

It's interesting that the OPs revolver is a .32 Safety Hammerless in a mustard coloured box and is nickel and with a 3" barrel. This one is exactly the same except the label—it is a light green, both are early 1890s. I had thought these were colour coded by model and finish. But these differ, which is interesting, especially since they are the same barrel length.

Admittedly, I am a bit remiss in my collection. An obvious hole in my collection is a nickel Safety Hammerless in original box in both .32 and .38 cal.

To add to the scholarly information about Safety Hammerless revolvers from the 1890s, pictured are BLUED examples in original boxes, in .32 and .38 cal.

The BLUED .32 cal revolver appears to in an identical box to that posted by Dosgatos, except his is nickel.

The BLUED .38 cal revolver is in a box with identical light green labels as the others, except for the OPs. This one is in a darker red box. It does differ from the other three in that it has a 3 1/4" barrel and not a 3" one.

 

[mrcvs]

I should also have stated that C C Taylor & Co of 17 Oak Street in Springfield, Massachusetts manufactured these boxes during this time frame. I would think they surely printed the labels as well, but possibly not.

It's certainly nice to think that the box manufacturer would colour code revolvers based on finish, model, and caliber with regards to box AND label, but perhaps an attempt was made to just match a caliber and model with the same coloured box and labels were printed on whatever colour paper was at arm's length at the time.

 

[AlHunt]

Color me envious. And, 500 bucks? Color me more envious.

 

[glowe]

It seems that about everyone is sure their box is "original" with the gun, but that is not always the case. Unless you purchased it from the factory or from the original owner, it is not for certain it was original. Of course, neither possibility is possible today. Not saying that all boxes are put-together at a later date by a collector, but many are just that. It is more likely that the box is original if the box has a readable serial number on the bottom and if so, that should be shown. The OP's penciled number certainly looks authentic from the other few hundred I have seen and if it matches the butt number most likely a factory original gun and box.

A good attempt at identifying early boxes is found in SCSW4, where Supica & Nahas state several characteristics to help authenticate boxes. The 32 Safety box is stated to be mustard into the very early 1900s and it is stated that 38 Safety revolvers were red or maroon. The labels are identified by the color as well. Nickel guns used either orange or white, while blued guns used green labels. These description's seem to be accurate for every box shown on this thread so far. Were there exceptions, most likely yes. If the factory was running low on colored paper, they would have certainly used what was available when printing a batch of labels. Same option seems reasonable for the color of boxes. If running short, other colors could have been used until more stock was delivered. So it is likely exceptions would exist, but more the exception than the rule. I have one such box from the very early 1900s that is labeled 38 New Departure, and he box is maroon. The difference from other boxes shown and described is that this box has the wrong color label.

I am sure the box and label are factory, but do not fit the description in the book. No number on the bottom and no evidence that there was ever a gun stored in this box.

 

[JSR III]

The difficulty is that as many have said before, "if only this gun could talk".

S&W was known to not throw anything away and to use items not original to a gun if necessary, especially things like boxes. We have even seen box end labels that have been "amended" to reflect a different barrel length, special features like hammers or triggers or stocks and sights.

As someone stated, unless you were the original purchaser or it came down through your family and you can verify its history, we never know if a prior owner or shop owner put the gun and box together to make a more desirable package.

As Dr. Jinks has said many times, only collectors want things all wrapped up in pretty red bows. S&W was in the business to make money and they did that by the bucket full. If a gun needed to go out the door and a correct box was not available, they would use another and a pen if necessary to make a sale.

 

[iby]

If the serial # is written in pencil and is hard (but possible) to read....I am a believer

 

[A10]

That is a beautiful revolver! Congratulations on your find. Most of the gun shops around here would absolutely have cow if a customer offered to buy another customers gun inside the shop.

Is anyone else curious if the young man in the third ad ever found work?

 

[Mikebiker]

That is a beautiful revolver! Congratulations on your find. Most of the gun shops around here would absolutely have cow if a customer offered to buy another customers gun inside the shop.

Is anyone else curious if the young man in the third ad ever found work?

I have the strangest relationship ever seen with this shop. I could write a book about all the stories. Over the last 35 years i have obtained some unbelievable deals and guns.

 

[mrcvs]

I have the strangest relationship ever seen with this shop. I could write a book about all the stories. Over the last 35 years i have obtained some unbelievable deals and guns.

I anxiously await being able to read your stories.

 

[handejector]

Is anyone else curious if the young man in the third ad ever found work?

We need a pic!
If he was a handsome young blonde, some young widow might have offered Frak a "position".

 

[gmborkovic]

If that would have happened in my shop, the young man would not have to be worried about future employment.