NEW GENERATION FRUSTRATION RANT

[sheriffoconee]

Seriously...where on the internet can you go and find someone REALLY recommending a .22 or 38 caliber REVOLVER for home defense, or for any purpose really???
If you cruise the other gun forums, especially those devoted to packing and carrying and home defense....do you REALLY see people advocating Model 10's, 19's or 18's....NO WAY....
ALMOST everyone on those forums HIGHLY recommend the latest, greatest version of whatever self loader is in vogue...be it Smith, Glock, Sig, Springfield, CZ, or anything BUT a revolver....
I posted something similar yesterday, but the ONLY revolvers who people on MOST forums begrudgingly admit MIGHT be useful are J frames....apparently the rest of us are doomed to die in any armed confrontation if you are armed with anything less than a 40 caliber self loader stoked with the latest bonded core rapid expanding miracle hollow point...OR the latest version of a 1911....preferably one that is as far a departure from the original design as possible..
It is what it is......WE recommend revolvers, and are laughed at....
My wife's SD handgun is a .22 revolver...If I told most people that they would just assume she was totally unarmed....

 

[dcxplant]

My wife's best friend visited and asked the very same thing. First gun wants to carry.

I made similar suggestions. What did she buy? A Glock 40 compact...

From now on I'm just going to keep my mouth shut.

 

[oldafsp]

It is apparent that we are not alone in this one.

As one of our members here so aptly put it the "Gun Store Commando's" are at a alltime high.

The terms I hear thrown out there in the gun stores about revolvers are:

Useless
Outdated
Antiques
Boat Anchors
Dick Tracy Paperweights (just heard that last week)
Ineffective

Some stores in my area won't even take one in trade. All they deal in is the black guns.

I have a vid of Jerry Miculek on my smart phone that I show disbelievers. This usually changes their minds.

I am asked what I have against semi auto pistols. My answer is nothing at all. I own 2. Cheap ones at that.

And I am pretty good with them. When I tell them what they are(a Llama 1911 and a FEG P9R) they look at me like I landed a UFO in the parking lot....

It's not you Chief...trust me.

 

[loknload]

All they deal in is the black guns.

Good gun shops with a good selection of good used revolvers are getting hard to come by. That's all I see anymore.
I have to laugh everytime I go to a gun show when I see the younger crowd drooling and fondling all the black stuff! It's like the Holy Grail to them.
Hate to say it but the Black Stuff has no class, not like a good old revolver with wood stocks that set off the polished blue / black finish !

 

[RobC2]

I am into cars as well as guns and everyone asks advice, but then they end up doing something stupid anyway. I work in investments and the vast majority of people I work with lease their cars. Okay, not the best choice, but not the worst. But the cars they lease, they are often the ones that depreciate like crazy. Okay guys, your lease payment is depreciation plus interest, simple as that. If you want to lease, buy something that holds its value like a Honda or a BMW even, not a Dodge or similar.

Be wary with advice, the wise don't need it and the fools don't heed it.

 

[Titan]

All you can do is hope to educate newbs to some of the issues.

My experience is that they'll always make a final selection based on aesthetics, ergonomics, and saleperson advice.

I think advising somebody to by an old used gun is a loser, regardless of how economically sound it may be. Instant gratification is a major motivator.

 

[sgms]

I have also had the ignored advice problem several time, but I am lucky in that my favorite LGS (and indoor range)agrees with me about the revolver being a superior starter gun. I make my advice known and send them there ( or take them if I can) telling them to rent a few, talk to the staff, and get a feel for what we have been talking about. While they do carry and sell a good deal of the 'combat tupperware' they always tries to lead the new shooter to a good revolver as a first gun. Because it is easy to learn good shooting habits with. Even with the guy behind the counter extolling the virtues of a good K frame Smith, telling them why it is a superior entry level firearm, better than half do not want it. They want "high power rounds" with "high cap. mags." or air weight tiny 9m/m also preferably with high cap. mags. thank you very much. I guess the revolver just isn't sexy enough for the basic tv and movie raised beginner. Sadly the usually end up learning the hard way after buying several that they just can't use worth spit.

 

[redlevel]

My wife's SD handgun is a .22 revolver...If I told most people that they would just assume she was totally unarmed....

Sheriff, what brand/load does she use in her .22? I am thinking about letting my daughter have my Kit Gun and me taking her 442. I can see advantages in using either solids or hollow points.

I know the frustration of having advice ignored. A lot of the new shooters who have asked my, usually just in passing, and especially women, have wound up arming themselves with one of the dozen or so .380 jam-o-matics rather than a good reliable j-frame. I asked my friend at the NAPA why he was selling people these guns. "'cause that's what they say they want." I think the biggest reason is that most people just really believe that five or six rounds just ain't enough.

 

[chief38]

Well thanks for the response guys........ At least I feel better that I am not alone - although it still bewilders me.

Regards,

Chief38

 

[Snapping Twig]

Just went through this with a friend. First handgun situation, so I advised a 4" L frame (pre lock of course) since it can shoot Spl's and once he perfected his skills, he could step up to magnums and thereby not outgrow the revolver.

Didn't listen. Bought a semi auto.

I went through this with photo, bicycles, fishing gear - all things I know a little bit about - with people over the years. They don't listen after exhausting you with questions seeking detailed explanations and wisdom based on your success.

The part I like the most is when they come to you later, complaining about how the thing doesn't work. I usually tell them outright that was the very reason I told them not to buy it. Not a particularly well received response, but satisfying none the less.

 

[scooter123]

IMO, it's not purely generational, some people will ask for advice and then proceed to completely ignore that advice. It's been my experience that those who listen usually come back and thank me for the advice and those who don't get an "I told you" and told to take their complaints to whowever they chose to listen to.

 

[cantpickone]

A neighbor woman in her mid 50's decided to get a CPL (concealed pistol license) and had never fired a gun in her life. She asked my advice as to which gun to purchase.
I advised her to enroll in a class that a local gun shop/range holds monthly. They have only women in the class and only female instructors. This is an introduction to firearms class. They talk about safety and about carrying firearms or keeping them in the home.
Then they go into the range and the women shoot a big variety of handguns. They shoot semi autos and revolvers in various calibers and frame sizes in order to see what feels comfortable to them.
Well, she took my advice and enrolled in the class. But while she was there to sign up for the class a store salesman sold her a J frame in 38spl.
She went to the class and couldn't handle the recoil.
She then took the CPL class and got her license but has a gun that she can't handle and can't afford to buy another one at this time.
I had a Hogue over sized grip that I had laying around and I put it on the gun for her.
It helps her with the recoil but the recoil is still too much for her and it makes the gun too big for her to conceal.

 

[GeorgiaShooter]

Yeah thing is, I know just as many 60 year olds that do this same thing with not just guns, but anything. I help friends when buying custom made or high end musical instruments and the old guys are so cheap and frugal they screw themselves over and the young guys all go for the shiney objects. Some people confuse cost, price and value too.

I gave my son a plain double action 38 special he's learning with, he has snap caps and not allowed to fire or carry it until I see him practicing and learning the basics. I have a nicer semi-auto BG380 with his name on it new in the box, but he has no clue. And if he doesn't learn this revolver properly I'll keep or sell the BG380 and he'll never find out about it.

 

[oldafsp]

J frames can be tough on your hands and wrist with +P loads.

Did you have her try any standard .38 loads? That may do the trick.

 

[cantpickone]

J frames can be tough on your hands and wrist with +P loads.

Did you have her try any standard .38 loads? That may do the trick.

All she ever fired was target ammo. The gun she bought was an airweight. She would have been better off with a steel frame, or a semi auto that used some of the energy to operate.
The purpose of the class is to let women try various handguns so I just can't imagine that the salesman would steer her into a gun (which he did) when she was signing up for a novice women's class.

 

[woad_yurt]

There is one bright side to the general dismissal of revolvers. I've found that they generally languish on the pawn shop shelf and can often be gotten pretty cheaply. I bought a near-mint Model 14 for $300, a Model 19 in the box for $300, a no-dash, tapered barrel Model 64 for $350 that looked like it may have been un-shot.

Yes, the overall turning-up-of-the-nose at revolvers is bad for most but it's really good for those of us who like 'em.

The same thing is happening with semis, btw. Now that we have 18 round magazines in everything, those humble single-stacks don't often get a second glance. I got two Norinco Tok clones, a 7.62 Model 54 and a 9MM Model 213, unused and in their boxes, for about $250 apiece. That 213 is like a target gun, accuracy-wise.

 

[Photog]

I was in a gunshop and watched a salesman talk a couple into buying a revolver for their first defense gun....after that it went downhill.
First of all this "expert" salesman told them the Taurus was the best revolver ever produced. It got worse from there. The couple buying the gun were very scared of guns and didn't really want one in the house, but felt it was necessary to protect themselves and their children. After many questions were put forth by the couple the salesman came up with this solution. By the way, the couple had a two story house with a full basement, with their bedroom on the second floor (this will be an important bit of information as the story continues).
The solution, for safety's sake, put forth by the salesman, was to keep the gun uloaded, locked in a small handgun vault by the bed, and to have the internal lock on the hammer locked, with the key in another drawer. To further make the gun safer, the ammuntion was to be locked in a small safe in the basement so that there was no chance of someone being able to load the gun unless it was needed.
Needless to say, that was the last time I ever stepped foot in that shop. Later found out that the gunsmith shot himself in the stomach with a 25-06 that a customer brought into be worked on.

 

[CajunBass]

You gave advice. Not orders.

 

[GhostDog]

Maybe I'm just stupid but...

If you wouldn't trust a used car salesman blindly, why would you trust some jackwagon peddling guns? It makes no difference if the guy is helpful and knows his stuff or if he's a schmuck; why do people trust a stranger to sell them a gun when they wouldn't dream of doing the same with a car?

 

[Krogen]

Interesting thread. People make decisions on the information they have at hand. Sometimes it's bogus information. Sometimes they can't think out of the box. The best advice is facilitating self-enlightenment - a trip to the range.

A buddy is new to shooting. Not new to the world, though - he's 50 something. He bought a Glock and has been wrestling with it. Just doesn't work for him. He was somewhat biased against revolvers having tried Ruger single actions. At the range, I let him shoot a K-38 and a couple of Model 24s.

Wouldn't you know it, but he just landed a 1957 pre-27, 5". It's well-worn on the surface, but tight. It was full of goo and benefited from a good cleaning. Not hard to imagine it was a cop's duty gun that sat until the grandkids inherited it. Now the buddy is thinking about a 44 caliber S&W and is looking for handloading equipment.

So it goes. Today a Block (sic) tomorrow a Smith. I told him it was a slippery slope.